8 {Mountain}
4 {Battlefield Forge}
8 {Plains}
4 {Wind-Scarred Crag}
24 lands
3 {Seeker of the Way}
2 {Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh}
3 {Champion of Arashin}
4 {Hidden Dragonslayer}
4 {Zada, Hedron Grinder}
16 creatures
4 {Chandra's Ignition}
4 {Defiant Strike}
4 {Arcbond}
4 {Enshrouding Mist}
4 {Valorous Stance}
20 other spells
Sideboard
2 {Kytheon's Irregulars}
4 {Temur Battle Rage}
3 {Titan's Strength}
3 {Rending Volley}
3 {Feat of Resistance}
15 sideboard cards
Notes:
The idea is to bomb with Zada and a few creatures on the field.
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I have the idea to build a Zada deck around {Chandra's ignition} or {Arcbound} on all my creatures.
The 4-ofs are includes for the shell, the one-ofs I'm kinda doubting about which to include.
I'd like some advice from seasoned standard player, as this is pretty much my first standard deck.
(Like, is it better to stay RW or to splash {U} for the jeskai's in order to also be a Jeskai beat down?)
General idea of the combo: load of creatures, dump {valorous stance} & {Chandra's ignition} or {Arcbound} either before striking to make blocking hell, or dump some burn on Zada, gaining loads of life and burning everything. (The burn coming from a transformed Chandra, I'd think).
Mana base is second priority, but suggestions are welcome.
EDIT: several cuts, rearranged the cards. Sideboard is maybeboard.
Cut {felidar sovereign} being a 6-mana win more.
Decided to use Chandra for burn on the {arcbond} combo, minimizing the use for {soulfire grand master}, except for a hefty buyback on {valorous stance} (he was cut).
{hidden dragonslayer}: value as Smite for dragons & Eldrazi & lifelink & owning a prerelease promo (easy on budget).
{seeker of the way} also has lifelink when it matters, and gets a pretty nice buff when I combo out.
Currently thinking BFZ Gideon as an indestructible creature or ally drop or anthem. Seems alround good as a 2-3.
{lantern scout} to give all creatures lifelink, needed to survive. (Those ally creatures / Giddy / Zada).
Maybes:
{ojutai exemplars}: it's a big guy, lifelink when it matters, however not convinced he fits in.
Jeskai: is it worth it for {Jeskai ascendency} mostly? It does give a boost on combo, untaps Chandra to allow a flip from just an {arcbond} cast. However, it does complicate mana a bit, and I only have 14 non-creature spells ATM.
(edit on maybe: would DTT be worth it when going Jeskai?)
Update 2:
Had to do a major overhaul due to budget constraints. 2 Gideon sounds nice, but out of my league.
Thus, he went out. Since that means the added value of lifelink is pretty much gone, with all creatures having lifelink, {lantern bearer} was also cut.
Discovered a pretty nice cantrip to fit in though:
{defiant strike} will draw me a card for each creature, for {W}. And power will rise, which is nice for Ignition.
In that same league is {enshrouding mist}, which reduces damage done to 0, which saves my creatures from the bomb. Will however not work with {Arcbound}.
Decisions, decisions.
{Arcbond} and {Valorous Stance} on zada with any damage source would go infinite and result in a draw. However i like the idea of using arcbond when blocked - the combo would work if any creature was blocked, not just zada. Damage would be capped though once your creatures started dying off. Your creatures all have 1 or 2 toughness, so they will probably drop in the first trigger - i don't know how effective that would make the combo.
Quote from: Nfidel2k on September 30, 2015, 06:48:55 PM
{Arcbond} and {Valorous Stance} on zada with any damage source would go infinite and result in a draw. However i like the idea of using arcbond when blocked - the combo would work if any creature was blocked, not just zada. Damage would be capped though once your creatures started dying off. Your creatures all have 1 or 2 toughness, so they will probably drop in the first trigger - i don't know how effective that would make the combo.
Actually, with the lifelink on my creatures, they would bounce damage back and forth, killing my opponent, gaining me tons of life. Without lifelink, the player with the lowest life total loses.
Each of my creatures deals damage to each creature & player, equal to damage dealt.
Let's say Zada + Slayer + flipped Chandra on the field.
Bonded & indestructible. -2 Chandra on slayer, deals 2 to me, Zada, opponent, opponent's creatures. Net gain 4+2 for each opposing creature.
Then Zada triggers her bond: 2 damage to slayer, opponent, me, other creatures.
Putting me on +2, opponent -4. But then, the cycle starts over. Each time netting me (at least) two, and putting my opponent on 4 damage. Repeat 5 times. He dies. I win, no draw.
And yeah, it's nice swinging in making blocks result in tons of damage too :)
Quote from: Nfidel2k on September 30, 2015, 06:48:55 PM
Your creatures all have 1 or 2 toughness, so they will probably drop in the first trigger - i don't know how effective that would make the combo.
When just using {arcbond} when attacking, on Zada, every blocked creature will spread at least the power of it's blocker to all creatures & players. All creatures that are not killed by their blocker will then receive the bonded damage, resulting in a second trigger.
Depending on p/t of opposing creatures, this could well result in a wipe. And in any case, it gains me quite a bit of life..
Sorry buddy, but it's actually in the rules on gatherer under arcbond. If two creatures have arcbond and indestructible, game results in a draw. Last ruling...
Edit: reread the ruling and i stand corrected, you are right sir :)
Quote from: Nfidel2k on September 30, 2015, 07:09:27 PM
Sorry buddy, but it's actually in the rules on gatherer under arcbond. If two creatures have arcbond and indestructible, game results in a draw. Last ruling...
If two Arcbonds have resolved targeting different creatures, and damage is dealt to one of them, the delayed triggered ability will cause that creature to deal damage to each other creature and player. This will cause the delayed triggered ability from the other Arcbond to trigger. The second creature will then deal damage to each other creature and player. This will continue until one or both of the creatures die or the game ends. If this doesn't happen (perhaps because both creatures have indestructible and damage dealt to the players is being prevented), and no player breaks the loop, the game will be a draw.
"This will continue until the game ends"
If this doesn't happen, it's a draw.
Say the opposing player has a {platinum angel} out (assuming legal), THEN it's a draw.
PS, sorry about the neg, fat fingers. I did compensate though. Appreciate the feedback, really.
All good :). Honestly i like math but my head was hurting thinking about all the triggers... Glad it works though
I'm really liking the enshrouding mist
Would {Center Soul} Also work here like enshrouding mist?
Quote from: redwolv on September 30, 2015, 10:27:57 PM
Would {Center Soul} Also work here like enshrouding mist?
It's a worse mist in this case.
It doesn't work with {Chandra's ignition}. If you cast it before Ignition, targets will be illegal. The rebound would pretty much only be relevant to swing for lethal vs mono blockers.
On the other hand, it does provide protection from removal. Sideboard?
RW tango land in here seems better than crag.
Quote from: Kaalia with haste on October 01, 2015, 03:07:21 PM
RW tango land in here seems better than crag.
As soon as OGW comes out, I suppose...
The BFZ cycle is allied colors only.
Quote from: Kaylesh on October 01, 2015, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: Kaalia with haste on October 01, 2015, 03:07:21 PM
RW tango land in here seems better than crag.
As soon as OGW comes out, I suppose...
The BFZ cycle is allied colors only.
Well, I'm stupid. Thanks.
Play tested this against a buddy of mine. He was not amused when the combo went off against his ally deck, but i sure was!
3 out of 1 stars
Would ignite zada again.
Quote from: redwolv on October 02, 2015, 10:50:45 PM
Play tested this against a buddy of mine. He was not amused when the combo went off against his ally deck, but i sure was!
3 out of 1 stars
Would ignite zada again.
That's really nice to hear.
I had prepared a gauntlet starting with Abzan aggro. The Abzan list made such short work of the list I pretty much dismissed this build as a standard legal casual. I guess I shouldn't give up yet.
Further play testing makes me like this deck.
It may not be THE deck to beat, but I recon it can surprise. So now building a sideboard. Thinking of protection and some added aggression for a slight transformation into RW aggro style. Any ideas?
I'll get back to you with more but off the top of my head. {temur battle rage} I also still like {center soul} for two turns of evasive beat down. Or {Feat of Resistance} For evasion and a permeant power bump.
Quote from: redwolv on October 03, 2015, 02:52:38 PM
I'll get back to you with more but off the top of my head. {temur battle rage} I also still like {center soul} for two turns of evasive beat down. Or {Feat of Resistance} For evasion and a permeant power bump.
I agree, I'm thinking mostly a transform SB. Full combo R1, then move into more of a tailored beatdown. Great suggestions, keep m coming.
{Kytheon's Irregulars} Might be interesting to sideboard has he works with both battlerage ferocity, that mist card in the mainboard to untap him, plus he can become a 5/4 if he hits the oppenet. Lastly his WW can be nice for opening holes in the opponents defenses or to stop him from attacking with something nasty.
Well my break is over. Will probably thing of more stuff by the time i get home from work.
For a transform sideboard, what about {ojutai's exemplars} and {felidar's sovereign}. New win con and the base is already there
Edit: and you originally had them in the deck :)
Quote from: Nfidel2k on October 04, 2015, 05:52:35 AM
For a transform sideboard, what about {ojutai's exemplars} and {felidar's sovereign}. New win con and the base is already there
Edit: and you originally had them in the deck :)
Sounds great, but I saw the price of Felidar and adding him so that I consistently can win with him is gonna be pricey. 20-30 USD I recon.
The beatdown plan is cheaper on the budget.
However, I do like the idea :)
In the beatdown plan, could Exemplars be better as 4-drop in the side? It can also tap down, but seems somewhat more versatile.
I like the exemplars with the cheap instants. My favorite in this case would be {titans strength} for beatdown sideboard. My concern with the new set is the popularity of the eldrazi and the prevalence of colorless removal spells; i guess we'll see what happens this friday to my local meta. Eldrazi are bigger, and against a green/blue ramp i'm not sure i would try beatdown. Colorless removal and creatures means protection spells are almost useless as well.
Quote from: Nfidel2k on October 04, 2015, 07:35:06 AM
I like the exemplars with the cheap instants. My favorite in this case would be {titans strength} for beatdown sideboard. My concern with the new set is the popularity of the eldrazi and the prevalence of colorless removal spells; i guess we'll see what happens this friday to my local meta. Eldrazi are bigger, and against a green/blue ramp i'm not sure i would try beatdown. Colorless removal and creatures means protection spells are almost useless as well.
You are right. Devoid gets around protection.
Will be swapping out one of those for the {titan's strength}. I totally missed they were reprinted in ORI :$
Took this to FNM standard today.
While I had fun, and the deck had its moments (explaining arcbond + lifelink is very satisfying).
Went 0-3 though, with two 0-2s and a really close 1-2.
It was shutdown by control. (G2 he drew a full hand of removal + {citadel siege}, so I couldn't stick anything).
Outpaced by Zada aggro in match 3. (I could have had him with the infinite combo G2, however, he didn't block).
Match two was the only one that was close. It was a 4-color CoCo thing, but the player had his CoCos in his modern deck, so was running without.
Plenty of 4+ power to trigger his ferocious were removed by combat tricks or straight up {valorous stance} and flipping {hidden dragonslayer}. Managed to get tons of life while wiping the board in G1. (He also cracked 8 fetches that game which will have helped).
Then the sideboard came out and with it came tons of counterspells. G3 went to time, he was swinging with a {den protector} fitted with two counters & two Mantis. All I needed to draw was removal for the Den to get the game to a draw. Alas, I didn't.
All in all. Great fun, but I'm afraid it's more of a casual combo deck which happens to be standard legal.
Might still play it again in another FNM though..
So 2 {soulfire grandmaster}s would also be out of budget right? They seem great here over {champions of arashin}. More lifegain and rebuy your spells lategame.
Quote from: particle on October 17, 2015, 10:17:54 AM
So 2 {soulfire grandmaster}s would also be out of budget right? They seem great here over {champions of arashin}. More lifegain and rebuy your spells lategame.
SGM was considered, but I'm not convinced he's worth it. I saw him do heaps of work in a BRW burn/control, but I don't have any burn spells except for the 3 in SB.
All damage is done by the creatures.
The buyback is somewhat steep considering most games were over with 4-5 lands on the field.
Quote from: Kaylesh on October 17, 2015, 11:01:23 AM
Quote from: particle on October 17, 2015, 10:17:54 AM
So 2 {soulfire grandmaster}s would also be out of budget right? They seem great here over {champions of arashin}. More lifegain and rebuy your spells lategame.
SGM was considered, but I'm not convinced he's worth it. I saw him do heaps of work in a BRW burn/control, but I don't have any burn spells except for the 3 in SB.
All damage is done by the creatures.
The buyback is somewhat steep considering most games were over with 4-5 lands on the field.
I missed the fact that {arcbond} and {Chandra's ignition} are not actually doing any damage themselves. Makes sense sgm is not right here.
Quote from: particle on October 17, 2015, 03:43:39 PM
Quote from: Kaylesh on October 17, 2015, 11:01:23 AM
Quote from: particle on October 17, 2015, 10:17:54 AM
So 2 {soulfire grandmaster}s would also be out of budget right? They seem great here over {champions of arashin}. More lifegain and rebuy your spells lategame.
SGM was considered, but I'm not convinced he's worth it. I saw him do heaps of work in a BRW burn/control, but I don't have any burn spells except for the 3 in SB.
All damage is done by the creatures.
The buyback is somewhat steep considering most games were over with 4-5 lands on the field.
I missed the fact that {arcbond} and {Chandra's ignition} are not actually doing any damage themselves. Makes sense sgm is not right here.
So nice people miss that. Like two times during FNM I resolve arcbond, they pick up pieces, calculate damage, and then I'm like: gain 10.
Wait what?
Hidden dragonslayer did all the damage..