Great card to handle the cruise, could really help keep ur delver under control. Only problem might be over powerfull BUG decks that can kill opontents cruises and keep theres, but thats unlikely. I think unbanning deathrite would be fine right now, thoughts?
{Deathrite Shaman} does not stop {Treasure Cruise}. Who wants to deal with unbanning DRS again when it was so oppressive the first time...
{Scavenging Ooze} currently is better at keeping opponents off Cruise, and isn't being used for that purpose.
I think that they'd rather just ban {Treasure Cruise}, because DRS is simply not fast enough to stop Cruising. A DRS unban could be interesting though, could shake up a UR-dominated meta by making Jund, Junk, and Rock real decks again.
Why would anyone want Jund to be back? Damaging the meta again isn't healthy, and everyone cried like babies the first time to ban DRS. Now the tears are for {Treasure Cruise}.
Modern is two decks. Decks that play {Steam Vents} and decks that play {Overgrown Tomb}. They ebb and flow. {Deathrite Shaman} and {Treasure Cruise} have proven themselves to be cards the meta has absolutely no interest in hating out, so the ban list for them both.
Quote from: Dudecore on November 13, 2014, 10:32:53 PM
Why would anyone want Jund to be back? Damaging the meta again isn't healthy, and everyone cried like babies the first time to ban DRS. Now the tears are for {Treasure Cruise}.
Modern is two decks. Decks that play {Steam Vents} and decks that play {Overgrown Tomb}. They ebb and flow. {Deathrite Shaman} and {Treasure Cruise} have proven themselves to be cards the meta has absolutely no interest in hating out, so the ban list for them both.
I think the resurgence (moreso in the U.S. meta than Europe) of UR midrange-esque decks over the last year would make for a meta in which {Overgrown Tomb} decks could get back DRS without being overly oppressive. {Splinter Twin}, UWR midrange, and Kiki-Pod, which fairly recently became tier 1-2 decks could easily fight GBx decks, UWx control has and will always survive, and combo isn't going anywhere. I think at this point it would create a much more interesting and dynamic meta.
Typically, I agree With you, Dudecore, but I think it could be interesting to unban DRS. Shake up the U/R meta. Let the two "broken" cards of the format meet and see what happens. I don't think we're going to be rid of the crying over busted cards, so might as well let people play them. TC and DRS fit very different decks (unless Bug becomes a thing in Modern), so I could see it helping to diversify the meta. Just my opinion.
For once I agree with Taysby (lol)
Recently we watched the unbanning of {Bitterblossom} in modern. Everyone was .loving. terrified. But you know what? It's strong, but it's not as back breaking as it was.
So many things are banned that, perhaps, shouldn't. Some things are unbanned that perhaps, should. My idea?
Total overhaul. Unban everything for a single pro tour in modern. Let people build what they build. Then, after the tournament wizards can actually check what is actually too powerful, and what now, is just a good card. Sure, it fucks a single pro tour, but hey, how else do we discern it accurately?
Why is {Chrome Mox} banned but {Mox Opal} is ok?
Urban {jace the mindsculpter}, {dark depths}, {skullclamp}, {stoneforge mystic}, {mental misstep} (card doesn't seem that relevant in modern anymore), {second sunrise} and {umezawa's jitte}...... 😈😈😈
Quote from: Falcon182 on November 14, 2014, 01:03:03 AM
Why is {Chrome Mox} banned but {Mox Opal} is ok?
One, because opal requires you to have metal craft turned on and chrome doesn't. Two, mox is legandery so can only have one, where as chrome is not legandery so you can have multiples out at the same time.
One of the ChannelFireball dudes did a banned series, where he built around banned cards in Modern and Legacy. I don't remember the results, but I think {Punishing Fire} was real good.
Punishing Jund is a real deck played in a "real" format. It is very good, but not unstoppable.
Quote from: blackychan1 on November 14, 2014, 01:23:35 AM
{mental misstep} (card doesn't seem that relevant in modern anymore)
I would never unban Mental Misstep ever. Even though Modern is not as fast as Legacy, your turn 1 play is still pretty crucial. Leaving turn 1 up to whoever has more Missteps is just asking for trouble.
Before I start I want to clarify that I've never played anything other than standard or EDH, so even though I peruse the forums a lot and read a lot about other formats I don't really have any experience in them. That being said, what if wizards made a restricted list for some of the cards that are banned? Like in vintage(I think). Just to see how having a little splash of them in modern will effect it overall before making a final decision to either leave it restricted, ban it again, or fully unban a certain card.
Nah
A one of for cards is definitely still a possibility to overthrow the game
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on November 16, 2014, 03:36:38 PM
Nah
A one of for cards is definitely still a possibility to overthrow the game
Yeah but not as bad as 4 of. I like the idea of doing a restricted list in modern. That would make things really interesting
The reason that no other formats have restricted lists is that they make games more based on luck (who draws into his or her restricted cards first), and they limit the designs for tutors and recursion, leading cards to be restricted that otherwise shouldn't be. If it's not okay to have at 4, then it shouldn't be okay at all.
{Mental Misstep} is still regarded as an absolute disaster in Legacy. It was one of the few cards to receive one of the "Emergency bans". Modern would be even worse.
I also haven't seen a card come along that makes {Deathrite Shaman} worse in Modern. It doesn't stop cruise, and cruise doesn't stop it. An unbanning would just allow DRS to pick up where it left off
{Mental misstep} makes {Deathrite shaman} worse... :P
Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 06:50:55 PM
I also haven't seen a card come along that makes {Deathrite Shaman} worse in Modern. It doesn't stop cruise, and cruise doesn't stop it. An unbanning would just allow DRS to pick up where it left off
But I think the format itself has changed enough (due to different decks being prevalent, and some card changes (new cards, unbannings etc.) that it wouldn't make as big an impact. When it first came out, it slid right into an oppressive tier 1 deck, but now it would just help out a tier 2 deck, possibly making it tier one again, and adding to the diversity.
It also slips right back into Pod...
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on November 16, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 06:50:55 PM
I also haven't seen a card come along that makes {Deathrite Shaman} worse in Modern. It doesn't stop cruise, and cruise doesn't stop it. An unbanning would just allow DRS to pick up where it left off
But I think the format itself has changed enough (due to different decks being prevalent, and some card changes (new cards, unbannings etc.) that it wouldn't make as big an impact. When it first came out, it slid right into an oppressive tier 1 deck, but now it would just help out a tier 2 deck, possibly making it tier one again, and adding to the diversity.
It will make Jund, Junk and The Rock all decks again, and it would give more firepower to already prevalent {B}/X decks. Given, I would love to be able to play with my Deathrites in Modern again, but I don't think it would be healthy at all.
Quote from: Taysby on November 16, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
thus we unban a lot of stuff like {stoneforge mystic} and it won't dominate the meta.
...So we basically have legacy?
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on November 16, 2014, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 16, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
thus we unban a lot of stuff like {stoneforge mystic} and it won't dominate the meta.
...So we basically have legacy?
Not really
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on November 16, 2014, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 16, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
thus we unban a lot of stuff like {stoneforge mystic} and it won't dominate the meta.
...So we basically have legacy?
Legacy minus all set up to 8th edition. Isn't that what modern is supposed to be?
Quote from: blackychan1 on November 16, 2014, 08:35:37 PM
It also slips right back into Pod...
Wow, I completely forgot about Pod, because I don't think of it as a typical GBx deck. Yeah, {Deathrite Shaman} will probably be unbanned some day, but I definitely don't think it should be in the next year. Maybe if the meta changes more, some really good new cards come out, or there is some odd banning (like {Birthing Pod}), I can see him getting unbanned, but not right now. Especially because a lot of the GP Madrid top 8 was pod: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpmad14/top-8-decklists-2014-11-16
Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 06:50:55 PM
{Mental Misstep} is still regarded as an absolute disaster in Legacy. It was one of the few cards to receive one of the "Emergency bans". Modern would be even worse.
Mental mistep did not receive an emergency ban in legacy. It got banned during the normal ban announcements. {memory jar} is the only card to be emergency banned.
Back on point: DRS is a powerful card, it doesn't shut down TC or DTT, and there are ways to shut down DRS. I believe it could be unbanned, but that's none of our decision lol
Quote from: rarehuntertay on November 17, 2014, 11:15:19 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 06:50:55 PM
{Mental Misstep} is still regarded as an absolute disaster in Legacy. It was one of the few cards to receive one of the "Emergency bans". Modern would be even worse.
Mental mistep did not receive an emergency ban in legacy. It got banned during the normal ban announcements. {memory jar} is the only card to be emergency banned.
Back on point: DRS is a powerful card, it doesn't shut down TC or DTT, and there are ways to shut down DRS. I believe it could be unbanned, but that's none of our decision lol
But DRS does have synergy with delve spells and technically does make it harder for your opponent to cast them. Say I activate DRS to exile your fetch and add U. Now I delve the rest of my grave (or, at least all of my lands) for Treasure Cruise. Now your DRS can't tap for mana, and I just took one of your resources for delving. On the other hand, you can respond to DRS's activation with Dig Through Time to fizzle him.
Let's also consider that DRS can slip into RUG Delver. He's not as efficient a threat, but he does give you mana, a decent clock, and a maindeck solution to graveyard decks.
Does this mean that he shouldn't be unbanned? It's debatable. I personally am not a fan of unbanning cards, but that's just my opinion.