iMtG Server: Gathering

Plus => Discussion => Topic started by: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:05:11 PM

Title: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:05:11 PM
Yay or nay at the republicans trying to impeach Obama? I'll chime in if i feel my voice is needed.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 12:07:48 PM
I am curious. What are the reasons for impeachment?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 12:08:12 PM
That just sounded lazy, I will look it up
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 12:07:48 PM
I am curious. What are the reasons for impeachment?
He's kind of abused his presidential power... But then, hasn't every president in the last 70 years done so? (Yes.) ;)
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 29, 2014, 12:09:37 PM
They are wasting their time and making themselves look like idiots.
Should it be done, I feel yes
Will it actually happen?  No
Are they making themselves look bad and wasting their time?  Yes

Whatever the issue was relight before this (I can'tremember what right now) they had him pinned to a wall with it, and his approval rating was drastically falling because of it, then they changed the subject like idiots.
Why should it be done? He's done things with his power every president in the last 70 years has done, yet the republicans didn't care when it was a republican in office.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:13:02 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 29, 2014, 12:12:07 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 12:07:48 PM
I am curious. What are the reasons for impeachment?
He's kind of abused his presidential power... But then, hasn't every president in the last 70 years done so? (Yes.) ;)
If you listen to the list, it's an impressive list.  He hasn't done as many things, but the thigs he has done are much bigger.  And you have to start chipping away at the president's power somewhere.  Why not here?
Funny that they didn't feel a need to chip at the presidents power when a republican pres was in office...
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 29, 2014, 12:13:32 PM
It wont be done. Only a few extremely conservative Republicans were trying to get him impeached, many believe to bolster campaign donations, but most Republicans wont touch this with a ten foot pole, because it looks unproductive and uncooperative.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Spencer Addington on July 29, 2014, 06:59:18 PM
So what are the reasons for said impeachment?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: TheRecklessPlaneswalker on July 29, 2014, 07:26:25 PM
Any president not doing something somebody wanted, will always be tried as impeachment.
President is a hard job, you got the whole world watching, and you are always pissing someone off. Give the guy some slack

Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 07:43:18 PM
How can you give him slack when an act he made basically says "If you are under the age of 18 you will not be deported". I mean the drug cartels in mexico are probably booming because so many poor families will give their children up so they can go to the US but drugs are gonna come in as well, but the kids wont be deported. It is pretty bad
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: TheRecklessPlaneswalker on July 29, 2014, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 07:43:18 PM
How can you give him slack when an act he made basically says "If you are under the age of 18 you will not be deported". I mean the drug cartels in mexico are probably booming because so many poor families will give their children up so they can go to the US but drugs are gonna come in as well, but the kids wont be deported. It is pretty bad

Calm down there pal, If you actually read and processed my comment. Which you didn't with your "jump the gun" attitude
You would understand that I don't dwindle into the political bull which people debate about,
But my main point, as a student of history, was being president is a hard job, and  how would you like the world exploiting your every mistake
And every decision you make big or small will always be an upward battle.
So I reinstate "cut him some slack" because life is hard and people like you talking crap about it doesn't solve any problems
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: TheRecklessPlaneswalker on July 29, 2014, 08:57:49 PM
"I don't defend the man,but I do defend the ability of the man to do a job, no other man can do"
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: jonrox3 on July 29, 2014, 10:58:26 PM
Well, that is just my opinion on a decision he has made. I understand it is a difficult job, (this will sound really stupid) but it is my dream to become president. I am sure if I do become elected there will be some things that people will hate me for. But I just do not understand the idea behind that act.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Xaol on July 30, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
I think their grounds for impeachment are ridiculous. I work in DC and saw these Impeach Obama protestors in front of Union Station yesterday. I asked them why they thought they could impeach Obama- they said because of his "abuse of power" in getting his people appointed during the Congressional recess. what I find hilarious about this is that Reagan did the EXACT same thing when he was president, but you don't hear any Impeach Obama people bringing THAT up! .politics. has no long term memory, clearly.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 07:55:21 PM
GOP sues Obama in a first of its kind lawsuit: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-house-votes-to-sue-obama-20140730-story.html

"Speaker John A. Boehner to file suit in federal court on behalf of the full body "to seek appropriate relief" for Obama's failure to enforce a provision of the Affordable Care Act that would penalize businesses that do not offer basic health insurance to their employees." So Boehner is suing Obama for not enforcing penalties, which is something that the GOP didn't want in the first place? That's as if I wanted to go to a party and you told me not to, but when I finally decided to not go to the party, you yell at me.

More from the article: "The GOP-led House has voted to repeal the law, even as it seeks to sue Obama for failing to enforce it. When he unveiled the suit, Boehner insisted it was about more than just Obama. "This isn't about Republicans and Democrats. It's about defending the Constitution that we swore an oath to uphold, and acting decisively when it may be compromised," Boehner said Wednesday."
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Spencer Addington on July 30, 2014, 07:59:49 PM
Republicans don't like a democratic president. Democrats don't like a republic president. Republicans jump the gun more often than democrats. Thus the "impeachment" attempt.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Xaol on July 30, 2014, 09:35:49 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 30, 2014, 07:59:49 PM
Republicans don't like a democratic president. Democrats don't like a republic president. Republicans jump the gun more often than democrats. Thus the "impeachment" attempt.
It's so ridiculous, makes one wonder if it isn't time to just reform the system.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: Xaol on July 30, 2014, 09:35:49 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 30, 2014, 07:59:49 PM
Republicans don't like a democratic president. Democrats don't like a republic president. Republicans jump the gun more often than democrats. Thus the "impeachment" attempt.
It's so ridiculous, makes one wonder if it isn't time to just reform the system.
You are still wondering?!? :P I think reform is overdue...democracy can't survive when businesses are citizens and their 'free speech' is protected before actual citizens.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 10:10:56 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 30, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
How are citizens free speech not being protected?
I didn't say they weren't, I said that they are second priority to "corporation's rights".
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Spencer Addington on July 30, 2014, 10:13:23 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 10:10:56 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 30, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
How are citizens free speech not being protected?
I didn't say they weren't, I said that they are second priority to "corporation's rights".
By saying they are second priority, you implied that they've been violated.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 10:20:26 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 30, 2014, 10:13:23 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 10:10:56 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 30, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
How are citizens free speech not being protected?
I didn't say they weren't, I said that they are second priority to "corporation's rights".
By saying they are second priority, you implied that they've been violated.
I wouldn't say "violated" simply because I think it is too strong of a word, but there are cases every year arguing about citizen's rights of free speech (especially speech concerning religion), but no one thinks twice when the Supreme Court says, "money is speech and corporations can say whatever they want."
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 30, 2014, 11:03:50 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 10:20:26 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 30, 2014, 10:13:23 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 30, 2014, 10:10:56 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 30, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
How are citizens free speech not being protected?
I didn't say they weren't, I said that they are second priority to "corporation's rights".
By saying they are second priority, you implied that they've been violated.
I wouldn't say "violated" simply because I think it is too strong of a word, but there are cases every year arguing about citizen's rights of free speech (especially speech concerning religion), but no one thinks twice when the Supreme Court says, "money is speech and corporations can say whatever they want."
Well, "free speech" isn't entirely free. It has limits.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on July 31, 2014, 04:23:21 AM
Quote from: Xaol on July 30, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
I think their grounds for impeachment are ridiculous. I work in DC and saw these Impeach Obama protestors in front of Union Station yesterday. I asked them why they thought they could impeach Obama- they said because of his "abuse of power" in getting his people appointed during the Congressional recess. what I find hilarious about this is that Reagan did the EXACT same thing when he was president, but you don't hear any Impeach Obama people bringing THAT up! .politics. has no long term memory, clearly.

Your morals are failing, my friend. How somebody evil not getting his punishment in the past is an argument to not punish evil people now? Disappointing.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Xaol on July 31, 2014, 06:37:33 AM
Quote from: Piotr on July 31, 2014, 04:23:21 AM
Quote from: Xaol on July 30, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
I think their grounds for impeachment are ridiculous. I work in DC and saw these Impeach Obama protestors in front of Union Station yesterday. I asked them why they thought they could impeach Obama- they said because of his "abuse of power" in getting his people appointed during the Congressional recess. what I find hilarious about this is that Reagan did the EXACT same thing when he was president, but you don't hear any Impeach Obama people bringing THAT up! .politics. has no long term memory, clearly.

Your morals are failing, my friend. How somebody evil not getting his punishment in the past is an argument to not punish evil people now? Disappointing.
Well that's not exactly what I'm trying to say, but I can see how you'd interpret it that way!

What I meant is, it just makes the Republicans seem (to me at least) massive hypocrits by throwing a tantrum over something a member of their own party did less than 50 years ago.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 10:16:02 AM
Quote from: Piotr on July 31, 2014, 04:23:21 AM
Quote from: Xaol on July 30, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
I think their grounds for impeachment are ridiculous. I work in DC and saw these Impeach Obama protestors in front of Union Station yesterday. I asked them why they thought they could impeach Obama- they said because of his "abuse of power" in getting his people appointed during the Congressional recess. what I find hilarious about this is that Reagan did the EXACT same thing when he was president, but you don't hear any Impeach Obama people bringing THAT up! .politics. has no long term memory, clearly.

Your morals are failing, my friend. How somebody evil not getting his punishment in the past is an argument to not punish evil people now? Disappointing.
In no way is Obama evil. Give me exact moments and things he's done that make him evil. Then compare them to all the good things he's done.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Rass on July 31, 2014, 12:56:39 PM
Good evil it's all perspective. If I'm a billionaire Obama is evil because he is trying to take my money (taxing more) and give it to other people /things.

Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rass on July 31, 2014, 12:56:39 PM
Good evil it's all perspective. If I'm a billionaire Obama is evil because he is trying to take my money (taxing more) and give it to other people /things.
No. It's not because the purpose of that is not evil or malevolent, it's good (in his mind) and that's the deciding factor. Look at the definition.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 02:05:54 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rass on July 31, 2014, 12:56:39 PM
Good evil it's all perspective. If I'm a billionaire Obama is evil because he is trying to take my money (taxing more) and give it to other people /things.
No. It's not because the purpose of that is not evil or malevolent, it's good (in his mind) and that's the deciding factor. Look at the definition.

Hitler thought what he was doing was good.  So obviously he isn't evil.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.............  I'm loving your logic...
Well, his reasoning was bad either way. Obamas is good. What's he's doing has good intentions and is logically a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 02:08:03 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 02:05:54 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rass on July 31, 2014, 12:56:39 PM
Good evil it's all perspective. If I'm a billionaire Obama is evil because he is trying to take my money (taxing more) and give it to other people /things.
No. It's not because the purpose of that is not evil or malevolent, it's good (in his mind) and that's the deciding factor. Look at the definition.

Hitler thought what he was doing was good.  So obviously he isn't evil.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.............  I'm loving your logic...
Well, his reasoning was bad either way. Obamas is good. What's he's doing has good intentions and is logically a good thing to do.

Making the optimal human race was a "good" thing to do.  it would increase the quality of everyone's life.    The viewpoint matters.  To people in the SS they all thought hitler had good intentions and was wanting to help the world.
Except no matter what, humans that look a different way aren't genetically superior. They're the same as other humans. It's bad no matter how you look at it from any way other than Germanic Nazi.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 04:21:55 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 04:20:32 PM
No matter what, socialism steals from the rich and gives to the poor.  No matter what, excessively taxing the rich to give the poor free healthcare is theft.

Just because you see things one way doesn't make that 100% for sure good, and the other way 100% wrong/evil.  If hitler would have won the war, then his view would be the "good" view and the people who were fighting for the jews would have been "evil"

I'm sorry if that anology offends anyone, it's just the most recognized and easiest analogy to use.
That's not theft! Theft is stealing! Taxing is not! People who give taxes are doing something the government asks them to do!
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 04:27:45 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 04:26:27 PM
The government is stealing my money to give it to someone else.
First off it's stealing you're parents money. You love with your parents still, no? You're 18.
Second, no it's not. It's asking for it, and you're saying "OK, here's money."
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 04:28:29 PM
So i can just not pay my taxes?  Get with the program mlerner.

Yes you can, but you get punished for it. Almost nobody does.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 04:28:29 PM
So i can just not pay my taxes?  Get with the program mlerner.

Yes you can, but you get punished for it. Almost nobody does.

I will get thrown in jail, and be forced to pay it plus court fees.  There is no way to get past it.  If you try and say that's an option, you aren't being logical in the least.
It's not theft.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2014, 07:14:50 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 05:48:59 PM
theft- see stealing
stealing - Taking someone's property without permission and without intending to return it.

Taxes are theft if I don't want to pay it, and i don't want to pay for other's healthcare.
OMG, what a coincidence! There were a ton of people who thought like you today at work! The toddlers really enjoyed the library...

Its called a social contract, and if you dont like it, leave the country. You may not want to pay for other's healthcare, but guess what, not everyone is a selfish jerk like you ;) You obviously have more than enough cash to buy idiotic stilts and stupid glasses, so maybe now Lily can get her life saving surgery.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2014, 07:59:50 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 05:48:59 PM
theft- see stealing
stealing - Taking someone's property without permission and without intending to return it.

Taxes are theft if I don't want to pay it, and i don't want to pay for other's healthcare.
Note the definition says "without permission or legal right". They have the legal right.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 01, 2014, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.

Under iMtG law, totally illegal.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Spencer Addington on August 01, 2014, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2014, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.

Under iMtG law, totally illegal.
Were we discussing imtg law?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Ekann1 on August 01, 2014, 08:16:32 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on August 01, 2014, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2014, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.

Under iMtG law, totally illegal.
Were we discussing imtg law?
Piotr sometimes seems to give the impression that imtg law is the only law :P
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Rass on August 01, 2014, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.

When you apply for a job you have to fill out tax papers. This you are agreeing to pay taxes. You can choose not to work and you will not need to pay taxes. But all your life you have benefited by previous people paying taxes. Do you drive on the road? Guess what taxes. You go to the park? Taxes.

Taxes are necessary. Corruption and miss management that is a whole other story.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Wingnut on August 01, 2014, 10:28:16 PM
Let's be real for a minute or two. What needs to happen is that the money NEEDS to be removed from .politics.. Congress gets a yearly salary of $1,000,000 (yes folks that's one million), that's enough money to not whine we're not being paid enough. BUT, every shred of your life and finances are scrutinized, ANY indication of "donations" to your personal benefit and you are fired from congress, stripped of ALL wealth, and tried for treason against the United States. Congress themselves cannot change laws that impact congress, those are created by the president and the judicial system directly. To top it all off, 8 years of service max (maybe 12), then your told good day sir. No health care for life, not retirement paid for, not "severance pack" just a good old get a f'n job. Make these people responsible for the decisions they are making and take the god damn money out of congress IMMEDIATELY. This I feel should be step one.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Wingnut on August 01, 2014, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: Rass on August 01, 2014, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.

When you apply for a job you have to fill out tax papers. This you are agreeing to pay taxes. You can choose not to work and you will not need to pay taxes. But all your life you have benefited by previous people paying taxes. Do you drive on the road? Guess what taxes. You go to the park? Taxes.

Taxes are necessary. Corruption and miss management that is a whole other story.

You do not "agree" to pay taxes. You must pay taxes or you will be out into jail. This folks is not called stealing, it is called extortion. BUT, yes, taxes are necessary, I 100% agree. But the government should also have to answer for the money they spend ($30,000 for toilette seats, he'll no, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200). Everyone should have to pay the same tax %, the same, wait, what's that? Nope, the same. Capped for the number of kids you have, oh, you have 8 kids and get back $15,000 in taxes but make $20,000 a year? Here's $5,000 instead, birth control and a budget. Stop having kids for a tax deduction.


Ok, I'm done. Rass, this isn't directed to you a bit man, just wanted to quote about agreeing to pay taxes that's all and ended up on a tangent/rant. Sorry bro.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: MuggyWuggy on August 01, 2014, 11:31:43 PM
I totally agree about transparency of the govt accounts

We don't need to know about their R&D in full detail, but at least let us know you dropped all of our funds into the NSA etc
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Wingnut on August 02, 2014, 08:38:11 AM
Quote from: Taysby on August 02, 2014, 02:22:47 AM
Quote from: Wingnut on August 01, 2014, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: Rass on August 01, 2014, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.

When you apply for a job you have to fill out tax papers. This you are agreeing to pay taxes. You can choose not to work and you will not need to pay taxes. But all your life you have benefited by previous people paying taxes. Do you drive on the road? Guess what taxes. You go to the park? Taxes.

Taxes are necessary. Corruption and miss management that is a whole other story.

You do not "agree" to pay taxes. You must pay taxes or you will be out into jail. This folks is not called stealing, it is called extortion. BUT, yes, taxes are necessary, I 100% agree. But the government should also have to answer for the money they spend ($30,000 for toilette seats, he'll no, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200). Everyone should have to pay the same tax %, the same, wait, what's that? Nope, the same. Capped for the number of kids you have, oh, you have 8 kids and get back $15,000 in taxes but make $20,000 a year? Here's $5,000 instead, birth control and a budget. Stop having kids for a tax deduction.


Ok, I'm done. Rass, this isn't directed to you a bit man, just wanted to quote about agreeing to pay taxes that's all and ended up on a tangent/rant. Sorry bro.
Well with the amount of buildings the gov makes, 30,000 might be reasonable for toilet seats.  ;)

I agree on everyone paying the same percent.
And that example with the exception of birth control.  Cap the rebate but no birth control.  I shouldn't have to pay to make someone else not have kids when they could just not have sex.

Yeah the birth control was over the top. It was more aimed towards making it so that people don't have a financial incentive to keep having children (trust me, there ARE people who have children so that their government assistance will increase). I just wish that there was more responsibility in the world, and the government is not helping the situation.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Munchlax on August 02, 2014, 09:54:25 AM
I just read through this whole thread and it's kinda funny to see the vast majority of different views here. I for one agree that we shouldn't have to pay for other people's health care. This does not mean I think we shouldn't pay for taxes.

Also why should really get back on the topic of why Obama should/should not get impeached
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 02, 2014, 08:42:13 PM
There are nine kids in my family. There is already a sort of cap. They fixed that Long ago. The amount tapers with more children.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 04:21:08 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2014, 07:14:50 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 05:48:59 PM
Taxes are theft if I don't want to pay it, and i don't want to pay for other's healthcare.

Its called a social contract, and if you dont like it, leave the country.

Oh, so now to add to stealing and extortion you want to force people into exile. Typical socialist, you have no problem at all with doing to people what they do not want done to themselves, don't you? Of course, you would do all this evil only to further the great goal of yours, and Marx's, not just in general, I hope?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 04:21:50 AM
Quote from: E.kann1 on August 01, 2014, 08:16:32 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on August 01, 2014, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2014, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.

Under iMtG law, totally illegal.
Were we discussing imtg law?
Piotr sometimes seems to give the impression that imtg law is the only law :P

Here, it is.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:01:37 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2014, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.

Under iMtG law, totally illegal.

However, if they do not follow iMTG Law, then to them, the Law is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:06:13 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:01:37 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2014, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Spencer Addington on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.
Actually, it's not.

Under iMtG law, totally illegal.

However, if they do not follow iMTG Law, then to them, the Law is irrelevant.

If they do not follow iMtG law, they are evil people, true or false?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Trick question. To them, they are good. To you, they are evil.

Edit: So I suppose, to answer your question, That true+ false=false.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:30:11 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Trick question. To them, they are good. To you, they are evil.

Edit: So I suppose, to answer your question, That true+ false=false.

Ok, I see you subscribe to the kind of morality which says that if you steal a cow from me, it is good, but if I steal a cow from you, it is evil?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:32:40 AM
If that I how I choose to see it, then that is what is good or evil to me. That seems to be the way the world works. By individual beliefs, not the beliefs of one person. True or false?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:43:46 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:32:40 AM
If that I how I choose to see it, then that is what is good or evil to me. That seems to be the way the world works. By individual beliefs, not the beliefs of one person. True or false?

False. Evil and good are objective, not relative. I'm also a bit disappointed in you taking that view, I would understand if you were a few years younger than Mlerner12, but I guess you are not?
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:52:30 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:43:46 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:32:40 AM
If that I how I choose to see it, then that is what is good or evil to me. That seems to be the way the world works. By individual beliefs, not the beliefs of one person. True or false?

False. Evil and good are objective, not relative. I'm also a bit disappointed in you taking that view, I would understand if you were a few years younger than Mlerner12, but I guess you are not?

      I am not. And I see no worldly text that states whether each action I perform daily is good or evil. I see your law, which is not known enough to be such a worldly text. Other than that, I see that good and evil are defined by many different laws and religions.
       I would like for you to enlighten me on how it is objective. Expressing your disappointment in me does not convince me that you are correct. Only by showing me the correct way can you do that.
       You are rather adept at debating, but I feel as if you are not actually trying to debate your side, but only debating against mine.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 09:36:11 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:52:30 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:43:46 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:32:40 AM
If that I how I choose to see it, then that is what is good or evil to me. That seems to be the way the world works. By individual beliefs, not the beliefs of one person. True or false?

False. Evil and good are objective, not relative. I'm also a bit disappointed in you taking that view, I would understand if you were a few years younger than Mlerner12, but I guess you are not?

I am not. And I see no worldly text that states whether each action I perform daily is good or evil. I see your law, which is not known enough to be such a worldly text. Other than that, I see that good and evil are defined by many different laws and religions.

Evil and good as defined by many different religions boil down to Golden Rule: DO NOT DO TO OTHERS WHAT THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO BE DONE TO THEMSELVES. Doing to others what they do not want to be done to themselves is evil (unless you are dealing punishment). This definition of evil is objective, not relative.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:52:30 AM
You are rather adept at debating, but I feel as if you are not actually trying to debate your side, but only debating against mine.

Why, thank you. I debate against your view, I do not know nor care about you, and even if I did I would still debate against your view point, this is who I am and how I think.

Having said that, knowing You may help me understand why your point of view is as it is, so do not think that I see no value in that.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on August 03, 2014, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:52:30 AM
You are rather adept at debating, but I feel as if you are not actually trying to debate your side, but only debating against mine.
I do not know nor care about you
Hoo boy
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Rass on August 03, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Wingnut on August 01, 2014, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: Rass on August 01, 2014, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 31, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
It's still taking it from me without my permission which is theft, even if it's legal.

When you apply for a job you have to fill out tax papers. This you are agreeing to pay taxes. You can choose not to work and you will not need to pay taxes. But all your life you have benefited by previous people paying taxes. Do you drive on the road? Guess what taxes. You go to the park? Taxes.

Taxes are necessary. Corruption and miss management that is a whole other story.

You do not "agree" to pay taxes. You must pay taxes or you will be out into jail. This folks is not called stealing, it is called extortion. BUT, yes, taxes are necessary, I 100% agree. But the government should also have to answer for the money they spend ($30,000 for toilette seats, he'll no, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200). Everyone should have to pay the same tax %, the same, wait, what's that? Nope, the same. Capped for the number of kids you have, oh, you have 8 kids and get back $15,000 in taxes but make $20,000 a year? Here's $5,000 instead, birth control and a budget. Stop having kids for a tax deduction.


Ok, I'm done. Rass, this isn't directed to you a bit man, just wanted to quote about agreeing to pay taxes that's all and ended up on a tangent/rant. Sorry bro.

All good I enjoy the debate. But I have to disagree with you. Look at big business. A lot of them do not pay taxes because they choose to put there operations out side of the USA.  You can also do the same. I'm not saying it's easy but you can do it. So yes when you get a job you have to fill out tax papers. You can choose not to and the company can choose not to hire you. Taxes are part of the cost of doing business in the USA.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 09:36:11 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:52:30 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:43:46 AM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:32:40 AM
If that I how I choose to see it, then that is what is good or evil to me. That seems to be the way the world works. By individual beliefs, not the beliefs of one person. True or false?

False. Evil and good are objective, not relative. I'm also a bit disappointed in you taking that view, I would understand if you were a few years younger than Mlerner12, but I guess you are not?

I am not. And I see no worldly text that states whether each action I perform daily is good or evil. I see your law, which is not known enough to be such a worldly text. Other than that, I see that good and evil are defined by many different laws and religions.

Evil and good as defined by many different religions boil down to Golden Rule: DO NOT DO TO OTHERS WHAT THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO BE DONE TO THEMSELVES. Doing to others what they do not want to be done to themselves is evil (unless you are dealing punishment). This definition of evil is objective, not relative.
"Boil down"? There are many more rules in most religions than the golden rule. They also define good and evil to that religion.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:48:36 PM
A vast majority is not all. Christians say that I am evil for worshipping another idol. Imtg law does not say that I am evil for such. It is not objective in this case.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Piotr on August 03, 2014, 05:52:48 PM
Quote from: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:48:36 PM
A vast majority is not all. Christians say that I am evil for worshipping another idol. Imtg law does not say that I am evil for such. It is not objective in this case.

Christianity is not, iMtG law is.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: blackychan1 on August 03, 2014, 05:56:59 PM
Our debate was not whether good and evil are objective in the eyes of Imtg law. It was whether it is subjective universally.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Raiderrob on August 03, 2014, 10:42:47 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:05:11 PM
Yay or nay at the republicans trying to impeach Obama? I'll chime in if i feel my voice is needed.
Have you done any unbiased research or do you spew your parents or teachers political opinions? At 13 what life experience do you have that have shaped the way you think? What has you interested in .politics. at your age? I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but with so many sources out there with such a heavily liberal bias it really sucks young kids in without seeing both sides of the political spectrum.

You seem like a super smart kid, so don't fall into the trap of being a parrot or a sheep. Question things, and do your research so you can see what is really going on in this world.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on August 03, 2014, 10:48:22 PM
Quote from: Raiderrob on August 03, 2014, 10:42:47 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 29, 2014, 12:05:11 PM
Yay or nay at the republicans trying to impeach Obama? I'll chime in if i feel my voice is needed.
Have you done any unbiased research or do you spew your parents or teachers political opinions? At 13 what life experience do you have that have shaped the way you think? What has you interested in .politics. at your age? I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but with so many sources out there with such a heavily liberal bias it really sucks young kids in without seeing both sides of the political spectrum.

You seem like a super smart kid, so don't fall into the trap of being a parrot or a sheep. Question things, and do your research so you can see what is really going on in this world.
I do my research, but I don't have my own life experience. I can only say what it looks like from someone who hasn't experienced anything.
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Munchlax on August 04, 2014, 12:39:02 AM
THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT OBAMA!!! MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD ABOUT TAXES AND CRAP!!! I CANE HERE TO GET INFORMED ON THIS AND ALL I SEE IS A HUNCH OF PEOPLE ARGUING ABOUT MOTHER LOVING TAXES!!!
Title: Re: Obamas impeachment campaign debate
Post by: Mlerner12 on August 04, 2014, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Taysby on August 04, 2014, 12:43:03 AM
Sounds like you are uninformed.  ObamaCare has cause many tax raises, thus, it is relevant.
Me?