As some of you will know I'm a massive 8 rack player. And with m15 out in just over a week, come the card {Waste Not}.
It is preordering for £7.99. Do you think this is a reasonable price?
I can only see it really bring useful in 8 rack variants. So I think it's preordering high.
And also a second question.
How much do you think waste not will effect 8 racks standing in the modern meta?
I don't think {Waste Not} will be a big thing. Discard decks really need the tempo and giving up turn 2 really sucks, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 10, 2014, 06:31:33 PM
I don't think {Waste Not} will be a big thing. Discard decks really need the tempo and giving up turn 2 really sucks, but I could be wrong.
True they need tempo. But then I've won games were I have not started discarding my Opp hand till turn 3 or 4 and won.
Also it keeps them going in the long game with less life lose the bob.
But then bob is bob and epic.
That's why I'm getting as much opinion from this wealth of exp here
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 10, 2014, 06:31:33 PM
I don't think {Waste Not} will be a big thing. Discard decks really need the tempo and giving up turn 2 really sucks, but I could be wrong.
I feel exactly the same way. The fact that you have to choose specific cards in order for it to operate how you'd like it to really makes it awkward as well. We'll just have to wait and see, but I don't see a loss of a turn 2 to set up a good turn 3 {Wrench Mind} being worth it. The benefit isn't worth the cost, especially being that it is not another rack. There's a reason why {Liliana's Caress} doesn't see play.
Also, Bob shouldn't be in an 8-rack list.
I don't know what the euro to dollar conversion is, but I'd pay around 5 for waste not.
It's fantastic, and will see play in every variant
Quote from: Stromack on July 10, 2014, 06:43:59 PM
I don't know what the euro to dollar conversion is, but I'd pay around 5 for waste not.
It's fantastic, and will see play in every variant
7.99 euros is equal to $10.87.
I actually think it will do well, kaalia edh with {Dragon Mage} make it a multiplayer game and it does lots of stuff all at once
Quote from: S717 on July 10, 2014, 07:09:37 PM
I actually think it will do well, kaalia edh with {Dragon Mage} make it a multiplayer game and it does lots of stuff all at once
I was speaking specifically of Modern, in a Nekusar EDH deck this is pretty crazy.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 10, 2014, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: S717 on July 10, 2014, 07:09:37 PM
I actually think it will do well, kaalia edh with {Dragon Mage} make it a multiplayer game and it does lots of stuff all at once
I was speaking specifically of Modern, in a Nekusar EDH deck this is pretty crazy.
That'll work too
Bob is what makes 8 rack playable ...
Quote from: Teysa karlov on July 10, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
As some of you will know I'm a massive 8 rack player. And with m15 out in just over a week, come the card {Waste Not}.
It is preordering for £7.99. Do you think this is a reasonable price?
I can only see it really bring useful in 8 rack variants. So I think it's preordering high.
And also a second question.
How much do you think waste not will effect 8 racks standing in the modern meta?
It's an alright card but on tcgplayer its only 6 American dollars..
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on July 10, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on July 10, 2014, 07:34:49 PM
Bob is what makes 8 rack playable ...
I disagree.
Bob is what makes 8rack good. Yes, it is playable if you can 1 for 1 them all day with discard and {Raven's Crime}, and win as long as there is a {The Rack} or {Shrieking Affliction} on the board, but Bob makes it so you are functionally drawing a card every turn and your opponent isn't.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 10, 2014, 07:49:51 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on July 10, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on July 10, 2014, 07:34:49 PM
Bob is what makes 8 rack playable ...
I disagree.
Bob is what makes 8rack good. Yes, it is playable if you can 1 for 1 them all day with discard and {Raven's Crime}, and win as long as there is a {The Rack} or {Shrieking Affliction} on the board, but Bob makes it so you are functionally drawing a card every turn and your opponent isn't.
It honestly depends on the list, a list with Bob is going to be struggling to keep him alive most of the time in order to net some cards due to him being your (hopefully) only creature. Dropping him allows you to create a more linear strategy. It sounds weird, but I believe nonBob lists to be a bit more successful. It is a matter of taste also though.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 10, 2014, 07:49:51 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on July 10, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on July 10, 2014, 07:34:49 PM
Bob is what makes 8 rack playable ...
I disagree.
Bob is what makes 8rack good. Yes, it is playable if you can 1 for 1 them all day with discard and {Raven's Crime}, and win as long as there is a {The Rack} or {Shrieking Affliction} on the board, but Bob makes it so you are functionally drawing a card every turn and your opponent isn't.
This exactly! Well put!! Like Bob makes it so you draw while you're opponent doesn't :P which is great bc 1 for 1ing only gets you so far
I've found that {Ensnaring Bridge} does a lot more work in this slot than Bob can.
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on July 10, 2014, 08:07:50 PM
I've found that {Ensnaring Bridge} does a lot more work in this slot than Bob can.
That's why you run both. Usually 4 Bob and 2-3 Ensnaring Bridge.
Why don't you like Bob in here?
I'm an 8 rack player and I don't run any dark conifdant. He doesn't improve my strategy but in some decks he would. My strategy is to keep both my opponents hand and my own hand empty so ensnaring bridge can keep me safe while the racks do their thing. Card advantage wouldn't be much help there.
As far as waste not goes, I will be experimenting with it as a 1 or 2 of, but I honestly can't see it sticking around.
Quote from: Mattao19 on July 10, 2014, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on July 10, 2014, 08:07:50 PM
I've found that {Ensnaring Bridge} does a lot more work in this slot than Bob can.
That's why you run both. Usually 4 Bob and 2-3 Ensnaring Bridge.
Why don't you like Bob in here?
Running both makes the deck sluggish. It's pretty much one or the other. All other spots are pretty exclusive and forcing slots takes away from the point of the deck. You can run Bob, but it makes the deck play differently and decisions become more complicated. If Bridge is ran, it should be ran as a 4-of, because it just auto-wins against so many decks. But it can also be pretty fragile. Like I said, it all depends on the play style, but I'm partial to Bridge lists.
Quote from: Mr_Fahrenheit on July 10, 2014, 08:12:31 PM
I'm an 8 rack player and I don't run any dark conifdant. He doesn't improve my strategy but in some decks he would. My strategy is to keep both my opponents hand and my own hand empty so ensnaring bridge can keep me safe while the racks do their thing. Card advantage wouldn't be much help there.
As far as waste not goes, I will be experimenting with it as a 1 or 2 of, but I honestly can't see it sticking around.
My point exactly. I guess I'm just extremely biased as to what my idea of an 8-rack list should be, I'm not a big fan of Confidant versions. And you made a point I failed to include, card advantage is precisely what you don't want with Bridge on board.
It's not confidant versions .. If you look on mtgtop8.com all the rack decks play 4 Bob also Arijan Van Leeuwen (I can't spell his name lol) ran 4 at PT BNG
A little off topic, but: could you imagine if they had reprinted {Liliana of the Veil} how much 8rack would cost? {Mutavault} reprint, {Thoughtseize} reprint, {Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth} reprint, and a {Liliana of the Veil} reprint. The only valuable cards that would be left are {Dark Confidant} (which isn't 100% necessary) and {Ensnaring Bridge} which is usually only like 2 or 3 of.
What is 8rack?
Quote from: Mozilla butcher on July 10, 2014, 08:59:55 PM
What is 8rack?
A discard deck that features 4 {The Rack} and copies 5-8 of the rack, {Shrieking Affliction}. The goal is to keep your opponent's hand empty with either {The Rack} and/or {Shrieking Affliction} on the board, giving you the win.
{Waste Not} is also getting a lot of attention because it was the player made card. I could see the price dropping shortly after release (like what happens with most cards in a new set). I don't believe there will be that many people designing decks around this card if they didn't play 8Rack before.
My 8 each deck runs 4 dark confident. But I'm thinking of replacing them with waste not
This is the list I will be running
// Smallpox/8Rack
//Lands:
2 {Buried Ruin}
2 {Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth}
3 {Ghost Quarter}
14 {Swamp}
//Spells:
4 {Ensnaring Bridge}
4 {Wrench Mind}
2 {Bitterblossom}
4 {Shrieking Affliction}
4 {Thoughtseize}
4 {The Rack}
4 {Inquisition of Kozilek}
4 {Liliana of the Veil}
2 {Raven's Crime}
3 {Smallpox}
4 {Waste not}
//Sideboard:
2 {Drown in Sorrow}
2 {Dismember}
1 {Bitterblossom}
2 {Nihil Spellbomb}
2 {Pithing Needle}
2 {Ratchet Bomb}
2 {Torpor Orb}
2 {Surgical Extraction}
How do you like bitter blossom in here?
Yeh I think bitter blossom is a little counter intuitive here. If you are running 4 copies of ensnaring bridge then you don't want any creatures. Especially since you lose a life every turn getting one the chances are you can't attack with anyway, or they can just block. I would personally prefer these slots filled with discard or maybe even removal for those opposing creatures with annoying abilities. Just my two cents though.
Yeah. Wouldn't work for my deck though cos I run necrogen mists instead of liliana
Quote from: Mattao19 on July 13, 2014, 07:31:47 PM
How do you like bitter blossom in here?
Bitterblossom. Work like a boss. I get a token each turn. Which seems bad with the bridge. But as I draw each turn. I then attack with tokens as I have one card in hand. Then afterward use it opponent can't attrack. So I kill quicker!!! Also if bridge dies I has blockers till I bring bridge back!!!
Quote from: Mr_Fahrenheit on July 14, 2014, 03:14:34 AM
Yeah. Wouldn't work for my deck though cos I run necrogen mists instead of liliana
{Necrogen Mists}
Bitter + Mists + Ensnarong Bridge work fine together.
1. Untap with 0 cards in hand
2. Upkeep discard a card (you can't), and get a Faerie
3. Draw a card (1 card in hand)
4. Swing with the Faeries that don't have sum. Sickness (bc you have 1 card I hand now)
5. Play your card.
6. Pass turn :p
Quote from: Mattao19 on July 16, 2014, 10:52:20 AM
Bitter + Mists + Ensnarong Bridge work fine together.
1. Untap with 0 cards in hand
2. Upkeep discard a card (you can't), and get a Faerie
3. Draw a card (1 card in hand)
4. Swing with the Faeries that don't have sum. Sickness (bc you have 1 card I hand now)
5. Play your card.
6. Pass turn :p
Exactly
Quote from: bravado883 on July 25, 2014, 06:21:33 PM
Has anyone tested with this card in standard yet? Although I'm doubtful it will make too much of a splash, I'm curious to hear people's opinions.
Not yet I'm brewing like a fury to try. But I can't see it seeing play outside some very fringe deck.
Quote from: Teysa karlov on July 25, 2014, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on July 25, 2014, 06:21:33 PM
Has anyone tested with this card in standard yet? Although I'm doubtful it will make too much of a splash, I'm curious to hear people's opinions.
Not yet I'm brewing like a fury to try. But I can't see it seeing play outside some very fringe deck.
i dont see it being terrible as a 2 of in a heavy hand disruption monoblack (maybe splash for {rakdos' return} shell just for some extra value.
Quote from: particle on July 25, 2014, 07:11:01 PM
Quote from: Teysa karlov on July 25, 2014, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on July 25, 2014, 06:21:33 PM
Has anyone tested with this card in standard yet? Although I'm doubtful it will make too much of a splash, I'm curious to hear people's opinions.
Not yet I'm brewing like a fury to try. But I can't see it seeing play outside some very fringe deck.
i dont see it being terrible as a 2 of in a heavy hand disruption monoblack (maybe splash for {rakdos' return} shell just for some extra value.
Saw a Grixis deck than ran it in standard on YouTube. Fond by peps at gone rouge