iMtG Server: Gathering

Decks (Magic The Gathering) => Modern => Topic started by: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 08:03:49 AM

Title: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 08:03:49 AM
So, we are about a week away from new Banned/Restricted list announcement. What would you like to see banned or unbanned? And keep it civil please!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on April 23, 2014, 08:05:44 AM
If {tarmogoyf} or Bob get banned imagonna cry.  Doubt it....but if they do....😭
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 08:09:24 AM
I would like to see  {Umezawa's Jitte} unbanned. It has never seen Modern play and I believe it could bring something to the format.

I would like to see something done about infinite combo but I currently cannot think of what... Lol
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MisterJH on April 23, 2014, 09:16:32 AM
I think they should ban everything expensive for a week so ican has buying it
Then unban it once ive built my deck :)
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DrainCleaner on April 23, 2014, 09:25:49 AM
Gotta ban island. Way too overpowered.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Zellius on April 23, 2014, 09:37:51 AM
 I personally wanna see blood braid elf unbanned now that they banned deathrites and see how the meta goes from there.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Taysby on April 23, 2014, 09:35:52 AM
AGain?  They just did one...

My thoughts, {pestermite} {deceiver exarch} and {birthing pod}

They do one every three months, usually right before a new set comes out. Last I read, the new announcement will be made on April 28
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on April 23, 2014, 09:59:57 AM
They won't ban anything. Modern has become pretty diverse with no one deck completely dominating the field. I'd love to see {Umezawa's beststick} and {preordain} unbanned though.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on April 23, 2014, 10:14:23 AM
Quote from: Taysby on April 23, 2014, 09:35:52 AM
AGain?  They just did one...

My thoughts, {pestermite} {deceiver exarch} and {birthing pod}
So kill decks that aren't dominating? Let's ruin the format!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on April 23, 2014, 10:16:14 AM
Quote from: MacheteMable on April 23, 2014, 09:59:57 AM
They won't ban anything. Modern has become pretty diverse with no one deck completely dominating the field. I'd love to see {Umezawa's beststick} and {preordain} unbanned though.
Umezawa's would kill many tier 1.5 decks, and fringe others. I would like A few cards changed up on the banlist. I'll post a list I have together soon enough.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DrainCleaner on April 23, 2014, 10:19:53 AM
BRING BACK EGGS! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on April 23, 2014, 10:22:42 AM
My friends and I had a pretty good discussion on this topic the other day, the main thing we decided on was that they should unban {Green Sun's Zenith} and ban {Birthing Pod}.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 10:27:31 AM
To me, Pod isn't the issue. I can deal with pod. What is harder to deal with is  {Pestermite},  {Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker}, or  {Splinter Twin}
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on April 23, 2014, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on April 23, 2014, 10:22:42 AM
My friends and I had a pretty good discussion on this topic the other day, the main thing we decided on was that they should unban {Green Sun's Zenith} and ban {Birthing Pod}.
That still kills both Kiki and Melira pod while also lowering their toolbox. Birthing Pod isn't even dominating, so i don't see why you guys keep thinking that Pod should take a hot.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on April 23, 2014, 11:01:41 AM
Pod is cool and it really shakes up the meta IMO.  That way cards like {abrupt decay} and {inquisition of Kozilek} are not so powerful.  The fact Pod decks rely on higher CMC cards I think makes the entire meta more diverse.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on April 23, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on April 23, 2014, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on April 23, 2014, 10:22:42 AM
My friends and I had a pretty good discussion on this topic the other day, the main thing we decided on was that they should unban {Green Sun's Zenith} and ban {Birthing Pod}.
That still kills both Kiki and Melira pod while also lowering their toolbox. Birthing Pod isn't even dominating, so i don't see why you guys keep thinking that Pod should take a hot.
We just want to see Green Sun in Modern again, but pod can't stick around if that happens.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MisterJH on April 23, 2014, 11:49:11 AM
The Top 8 meta isnt all that diverse from what ive seen to be totally honest
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on April 23, 2014, 12:24:42 PM
Quote from: MisterJH on April 23, 2014, 11:49:11 AM
The Top 8 meta isnt all that diverse from what ive seen to be totally honest
That doesn't matter though. Decks are strong, and they put up results. But that doesn't sot other decks appearing. For a deck, like Jund to be dominating, it should be at least 15%+ of the meta. Most decks you guys are talking about are only 7-9%. They aren't having the overall play that Jund had when it had Deathrite Shaman, they aren't taking over from over decks being seen. And the Top8 hasn't changed much anyways from last year.

Cards should be unbanned or new ones should be printed for decks to be stronger. It is not like there aren't answers and solutions for decks to play against either. And decks aren't breaking any boundaries that cause them to torrent any bannings
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 12:30:07 PM
Pod in the past 2 months has made up 12% of the top 8 meta, both online and major paper tournaments. Twin Exarch has made up 15% of the same meta. I'm not sure what the overall makeup is.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on April 23, 2014, 12:41:35 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on April 23, 2014, 12:30:07 PM
Pod in the past 2 months has made up 12% of the top 8 meta, both online and major paper tournaments. Twin Exarch has made up 15% of the same meta. I'm not sure what the overall makeup is.
if you add all variations of twin decks together you may have a higher percentage as well.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Dstyle1 on April 23, 2014, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: Taysby on April 23, 2014, 09:35:52 AM
AGain?  They just did one...

My thoughts, {pestermite} {deceiver exarch} and {birthing pod}

Basically......Anything to make tron viable ??
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Jonahcutler749 on April 23, 2014, 03:20:52 PM
It seems like you guys just don't like strong decks. There are clearly answers to birthing pod. It shouldn't be banned answers to them should just become more common In decks. Just because something is strong does not mean it should be banned
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on April 23, 2014, 05:32:25 PM
Quote from: Taysby on April 23, 2014, 05:22:01 PM
Regardless whether there are answers for it *cough*tron*cough*. If no one plays those answers, and instead just uses the same thing, that gets boring and they will try and shake up the format.

Maby snappy?  He seems too good...
No way on Snapcaster he is not OP

IMO
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Sparkle Ninja on April 23, 2014, 06:29:17 PM
Don't ban my snapcaster a yet.... I still need to sell them :(
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Kaworu, the Fifth Child on April 23, 2014, 06:46:57 PM
I don't think anything done to modern, but maybe {Living End} ban
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on April 23, 2014, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: Juvia, Water Woman on April 23, 2014, 06:46:57 PM
I don't think anything done to modern, but maybe {Living End} ban
That makes no sense. {Living End} isn't even top tier.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MisterJH on April 23, 2014, 07:05:19 PM
He is ridiculously good but so are most of the cards $30+ ;) i hope they ban snappy even though im quitting id pick up a playset for dirt cheap cuz its so cool
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Deathstorm on April 23, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
What they need to do is ban all the fetches
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MisterJH on April 23, 2014, 07:48:24 PM
For a while at least.. Then unban themone everyones got playsets
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on April 23, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
I don't think anything will get banned in Modern, but I wouldn't be shocked if some stuff is unbanned. I am hoping that {Deathrite Shaman} is unbanned in the next few years.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on April 23, 2014, 11:38:32 PM
Quote from: Taysby on April 23, 2014, 10:58:29 PM
Watch, deathrite shaman be unbanned this time.  Lol.
Yes, WotC just likes screwing with Jund. "Oh yeah, that was a joke....here, have back {Bloodbraid Elf} and {DRS}. Dominate the Meta!"
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Walkhard on April 23, 2014, 11:43:38 PM
I'd like them to ban all duel lands ever! -_-
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MisterJH on April 24, 2014, 09:32:20 AM
Idt green suns would be as much as chord currently is, i think they should flop the 2.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 24, 2014, 10:16:25 AM
I'm not sure. Chord can grab any creature. Green Sun only grabs green creatures. But GSZ may make pod decks more consistent. What decks really use Chord?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MisterJH on April 24, 2014, 10:35:36 AM
Idk but i think its more realistic to cast chord for 3 than GSZ(at least quickly) for example
Id rather chord :o
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on May 01, 2014, 07:24:42 AM
So....nothing got banned or unbanned as I predicted.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Prplprince on May 02, 2014, 04:39:50 PM
Right now the meta seems to be riding pretty smooth I guess so no bans I think but maybe  {Bloodbraid Elf} because it really seems jund has skipped the back seat and is sitting in the trunk
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on May 02, 2014, 11:18:43 PM
I can't agree with that now as I would in the past. BBE isn't as strong as it used to me with card Deathrite Shaman and it would only be too goo against control, but it would give Wizards a much needed ability to print tools that control should need to fight it.

While it is good, it isn't that hard to deal with as it was two years ago. And now, Jund isn't even a prominent deck. It is just BGx with Lightning Bolt and Chandra, as this would open up the format to the deck.

Pod and Combo decks don't have an issue with Jund even with BBE because of the ability to strengthen a game and devalue most of what BBE would have to offer.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: LordJanova on May 02, 2014, 11:25:20 PM
So should I pick a few up in anticipation of a possible unbanning in the future?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on May 03, 2014, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: ConanEdo on May 03, 2014, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on May 02, 2014, 11:18:43 PM
I can't agree with that now as I would in the past. BBE isn't as strong as it used to me with card Deathrite Shaman and it would only be too goo against control, but it would give Wizards a much needed ability to print tools that control should need to fight it.

While it is good, it isn't that hard to deal with as it was two years ago. And now, Jund isn't even a prominent deck. It is just BGx with Lightning Bolt and Chandra, as this would open up the format to the deck.

Pod and Combo decks don't have an issue with Jund even with BBE because of the ability to strengthen a game and devalue most of what BBE would have to offer.
My fear is that it would do what Jund always does and basically make a lot of strategies non-viable. Obviously, without DRS it can't kill UWR and it never killed Pod. My concern is the rest of the metagame. Start with any pre RTR Jund list then and you have a recipe for an over-powered, safe, linear deck that can kill certain strategies as it has done in the past.

But you have to take a loo at the Metagame then and now, this is more diverse and has more answers to a lot of what Jund offers even after BBE. it would be a very drastic shift, but not demeaning to the format when decks adapt. Many Tier 2 and 1.5 decks are hard for Jund to deal with even with card advantage, and the ability of a 2 for one isn't going to be ground breaking when all of Junds answers are now instants.

It would also give Geralf's Messenger a reason to be played again since DRS is also gone. The only real deck besides UWR that would hard any trouble is going to be Zoo, which isn't anything right now anyways and would cause Wizards to give it more pressure and answers against such decks anyways.

It wouldn't be healthy for the format when it first gets unbanned, but it is going to be better once Zoo and Control have more tools to work with that also apply pressure to the deck. BBE should come off of the banned list, but not until there are more tools that give decks what BBE gives Jund.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: lotrwk on August 20, 2014, 05:07:33 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: imthelolrus on August 20, 2014, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on August 20, 2014, 05:22:26 PM
That debate is over.
Banlist is always open for debate, although the format appears healthy :)
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 04, 2014, 03:46:04 PM
what should be banned? I still think that Pod is powerful but not OP (sure its the best card in Modern, but there's enough hate for it) so IMO i don't think we will see a ban anytime soon but maybe an unban?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Kaworu, the Fifth Child on September 04, 2014, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 04, 2014, 03:46:04 PM
what should be banned? I still think that Pod is powerful but not OP (sure its the best card in Modern, but there's enough hate for it) so IMO i don't think we will see a ban anytime soon but maybe an unban?
Maybe they should give eggs a chance. 😢
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on September 04, 2014, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 04, 2014, 03:46:04 PM
what should be banned? I still think that Pod is powerful but not OP (sure its the best card in Modern, but there's enough hate for it) so IMO i don't think we will see a ban anytime soon but maybe an unban?
An unban would be interesting to shake things up but I think they will not make any changes until Khans filters into the scene and they get a feel how the new block will impact the overall meta.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 05, 2014, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: Taysby on September 04, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
Yes, unban {second sunrise} plz.  There's plenty of graveyard hate.
won't be unbanned for the same reason (Sensei's Divining Top) won't be unbanned. Time. Eggs extended the time tournaments took because people would go to time. Most of the time spent in each round was solely during the eggs players turns and mainly the turn they went off. There was a big issue during the gps after the pro tour that was one by eggs.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 05, 2014, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 05, 2014, 10:52:41 AM
If the opponent has graveyard hate (like {relic of progenitous}). Their turn don't take very long because they get stopped.

I know it won't happen, but I can hope.
that doesn't work very well though. They can fight through it most of the time. Thst deck made our Wednesday night modern go waaaaay too long.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 05, 2014, 03:15:52 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 05, 2014, 02:29:27 PM
Not really.  They just hope to draw good stuff to try it again.
considering so much of the deck cantrips for free it was quite easy.

I want {preordain} or {ponder} unbanned
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 05, 2014, 03:17:40 PM
Quote from: MacheteMable on September 05, 2014, 03:15:52 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 05, 2014, 02:29:27 PM
Not really.  They just hope to draw good stuff to try it again.
considering so much of the deck cantrips for free it was easy.

I want (preordain) unbanned. Or (ponder)

Preordain and Ponder are broken in modern ... With the fetchlands you can completely manipulate your deck.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: lotrwk on September 05, 2014, 05:52:23 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 05, 2014, 03:56:01 PM
while we're at it, lets unban {sensei's diving top}!  Lego miracles without the force of will or awesome lands!
And jace and sfm....
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: lotrwk on September 05, 2014, 10:50:07 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 05, 2014, 06:50:26 PM
Forgot jace, but miracles doesn't run {stone forge mystic}
Brian Braun duin has been playing miracles for 5 months and plays sfm as a one of
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: blackychan1 on September 06, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
Let's ban {tarmogoyf} just to screw with Jund players.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Munchlax on September 06, 2014, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: blackychan1 on September 06, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
Let's ban {tarmogoyf} just to screw with Jund players.
And every other green deck and force their value to plummet and enrage many many players who will just stop playing modern and screw with that market. They wouldn't do that
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 06, 2014, 08:17:02 PM
I could get behind tarmogoyf banning. When a card gets put into decks that it has no business being in. Affinity. Splinter twin. Then we gots a problem yo.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on September 06, 2014, 08:38:23 PM
Quote from: MacheteMable on September 06, 2014, 08:17:02 PM
I could get behind tarmogoyf banning. When a card gets put into decks that it has no business being in. Affinity. Splinter twin. Then we gots a problem yo.
Why?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 06, 2014, 08:45:48 PM
Tarmo is not broken though sure he's good but it's not like he's hard to deal with and if you SB in GY hate he's an 0/1 ... It's not hard to deal with him. Having said that he's a great creature but certainly not broken!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 06, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 06, 2014, 08:45:48 PM
Tarmo is not broken though sure he's good but it's not like he's hard to deal with and if you SB in GY hate he's an 0/1 ... It's not hard to deal with him. Having said that he's a great creature but certainly not broken!
I didn't say he was broken. Afterall he's just a vanilla creature. I could just see a ban for diversities sake
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on September 07, 2014, 11:06:44 AM
Quote from: MacheteMable on September 06, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 06, 2014, 08:45:48 PM
Tarmo is not broken though sure he's good but it's not like he's hard to deal with and if you SB in GY hate he's an 0/1 ... It's not hard to deal with him. Having said that he's a great creature but certainly not broken!
I didn't say he was broken. Afterall he's just a vanilla creature. I could just see a ban for diversities sake
Won't happen IMHO
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 09, 2014, 06:31:09 PM
Quote from: MacheteMable on September 06, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 06, 2014, 08:45:48 PM
Tarmo is not broken though sure he's good but it's not like he's hard to deal with and if you SB in GY hate he's an 0/1 ... It's not hard to deal with him. Having said that he's a great creature but certainly not broken!
I didn't say he was broken. Afterall he's just a vanilla creature. I could just see a ban for diversities sake
I kind of have to agree. The card isn't broken, but banning him would lead to more diversity and a more interesting format.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 09, 2014, 10:45:13 PM
Diversity? Just bc twin plays it doesn't mean anything. DRS was banned bc Burn played it lol BURN lol but Tarmo is not hurting modern at all sure (s)he wins games but it's not like if your deck doesn't run him you're effed
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 09, 2014, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 09, 2014, 10:45:13 PM
Diversity? Just bc twin plays it doesn't mean anything. DRS was banned bc Burn played it lol BURN lol but Tarmo is not hurting modern at all sure (s)he wins games but it's not like if your deck doesn't run him you're effed
Twin isn't the only thing that plays it, it has appeared in Jund, Junk, GB Rock, Affinity, Splinter Twin......I'm not saying I think it SHOULD be banned, I'm saying I would understand IF he were.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 09, 2014, 11:59:50 PM
Well to be fair BGx is his deck that's like saying pod should be banned bc it has Melira, Angel, and Kiki Pod.

Secondly Twin plays it sure but I don't believe it has a home in affinity sure it's in a few of it's decks but I doubt it'll be a thing
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 10, 2014, 10:52:13 AM
Conan although I agree but it did offer cool new spins on older decks :P
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 10, 2014, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: ConanEdo on September 10, 2014, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 10, 2014, 10:52:13 AM
Conan although I agree but it did offer cool new spins on older decks :P
I just like to think Japanese players felt obligated to have wacky decks, then some burn players decided they wanted to win a GP and welshed.

Lol true :P
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 10, 2014, 12:58:51 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 09, 2014, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 09, 2014, 10:45:13 PM
Diversity? Just bc twin plays it doesn't mean anything. DRS was banned bc Burn played it lol BURN lol but Tarmo is not hurting modern at all sure (s)he wins games but it's not like if your deck doesn't run him you're effed
Twin isn't the only thing that plays it, it has appeared in Jund, Junk, GB Rock, Affinity, Splinter Twin......I'm not saying I think it SHOULD be banned, I'm saying I would understand IF he were.
exactly my point. High five! ✋
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on September 10, 2014, 05:25:00 PM
GP Kobe was a cool GP because of the decks that it had. But The affinity list wasn't affinity. Tarmogoyf is just a good card. Twin used it because of the Zoo escape. But it isn't stopping anything. Deathrite stopped so many decks from being decks and even weakened others. It made Jund too strong. Tarmogoyf is just finding more homes as the format becomes painfully answer/disruption heavy.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on September 11, 2014, 10:00:13 AM
We haven't said anything about tsrmogoyf being like deathrite or oppressive or anything. So we can stop comparing them already. The argument was for diversity. Exact same as green suns zenith
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
Tarmo appearing in Twin does not make it as undiverse (not a word but I made it up lol) as you'd think it took a somewhat struggling deck and made it into a much stronger one which adds to Modern. Tarmo will almost never see Affinity play again so other than BGx and Tarmo twin he's not in much else.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on September 11, 2014, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
Tarmo appearing in Twin does not make it as undiverse (not a word but I made it up lol) as you'd think it took a somewhat struggling deck and made it into a much stronger one which adds to Modern. Tarmo will almost never see Affinity play again so other than BGx and Tarmo twin he's not in much else.
He is not always a staple in deck because there is green.  There are a lot of zoo decks that don't run him.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 11, 2014, 04:47:59 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 11, 2014, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
Tarmo appearing in Twin does not make it as undiverse (not a word but I made it up lol) as you'd think it took a somewhat struggling deck and made it into a much stronger one which adds to Modern. Tarmo will almost never see Affinity play again so other than BGx and Tarmo twin he's not in much else.
He is not always a staple in deck because there is green.  There are a lot of zoo decks that don't run him.
Only because of the cost (monetary).
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on September 11, 2014, 05:33:01 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 11, 2014, 04:47:59 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 11, 2014, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
Tarmo appearing in Twin does not make it as undiverse (not a word but I made it up lol) as you'd think it took a somewhat struggling deck and made it into a much stronger one which adds to Modern. Tarmo will almost never see Affinity play again so other than BGx and Tarmo twin he's not in much else.
He is not always a staple in deck because there is green.  There are a lot of zoo decks that don't run him.
Only because of the cost (monetary).
Not true.

I watched a deck tech video where the guy explained it more about goyf not fitting the strategy due to all of the one drops that are more efficient early game.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on September 11, 2014, 08:17:49 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 11, 2014, 05:33:01 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 11, 2014, 04:47:59 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 11, 2014, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
Tarmo appearing in Twin does not make it as undiverse (not a word but I made it up lol) as you'd think it took a somewhat struggling deck and made it into a much stronger one which adds to Modern. Tarmo will almost never see Affinity play again so other than BGx and Tarmo twin he's not in much else.
He is not always a staple in deck because there is green.  There are a lot of zoo decks that don't run him.
Only because of the cost (monetary).
Not true.

I watched a deck tech video where the guy explained it more about goyf not fitting the strategy due to all of the one drops that are more efficient early game.
That is a fast zoo, which doesn't run Goyf because they don't fill the graveyard quickly to make goyf big effiently. Of course it wouldn't be used.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 09:23:32 PM
Deathly you run Affinity would you run Tarmo?

Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on September 12, 2014, 01:29:26 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 09:23:32 PM
Deathly you run Affinity would you run Tarmo?
I haven't tried it out yet, but it seems strong enough to use it. Yeah, I probably would.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 12, 2014, 02:35:39 AM
Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on September 12, 2014, 01:29:26 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 09:23:32 PM
Deathly you run Affinity would you run Tarmo?
I haven't tried it out yet, but it seems strong enough to use it. Yeah, I probably would.

Really? To me it makes the deck inconsistent
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DeathlyFoiend on September 12, 2014, 07:10:20 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 12, 2014, 02:35:39 AM
Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on September 12, 2014, 01:29:26 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on September 11, 2014, 09:23:32 PM
Deathly you run Affinity would you run Tarmo?
I haven't tried it out yet, but it seems strong enough to use it. Yeah, I probably would.

Really? To me it makes the deck inconsistent
It really doesn't. It just has some weird synergy with the deck. It grows fast because Affinity picks up hate like no other, and it makes a ground beater. With 12 sources, we reliably cast it, too.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on September 12, 2014, 07:26:46 AM
The sac outlet of {arcbound Ravager} would pump goyf too.  I can see why he could be good in affinity.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on September 12, 2014, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 12, 2014, 07:26:46 AM
The sac outlet of {arcbound Ravager} would pump goyf too.  I can see why he could be good in affinity.
How? Goyf isn't an artifact creature
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 12, 2014, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on September 12, 2014, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 12, 2014, 07:26:46 AM
The sac outlet of {arcbound Ravager} would pump goyf too.  I can see why he could be good in affinity.
How? Goyf isn't an artifact creature

He means like swing with my 3/4 goyf then before damage ill sac an artifact with Arcbound and now my goyf is a 4/5
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 12, 2014, 03:38:40 PM
Also, think about what you board in against affinity: {Shatterstorm}, {Kataki, War's Rage}, etc. All the sudden a 4/5 goyf comes down to finish out the game.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on September 12, 2014, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 12, 2014, 03:38:40 PM
Also, think about what you board in against affinity: {Shatterstorm}, {Kataki, War's Rage}, etc. All the sudden a 4/5 goyf comes down to finish out the game.

Good point never thought of it like that :P maybe Goofy has a spot in affinity
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 12, 2014, 04:06:24 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 12, 2014, 03:45:28 PM
and thus, needs to be banned for diversity.  :P
Sarcasm? I don't think it needs to be banned, but I wouldn't mind if it did.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on September 12, 2014, 05:45:47 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on September 12, 2014, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on September 12, 2014, 07:26:46 AM
The sac outlet of {arcbound Ravager} would pump goyf too.  I can see why he could be good in affinity.
How? Goyf isn't an artifact creature
Sac a {darksteel citadel} and you get a land and artifact to count towards goyf.  Sac a {ornithopter} and get a creature and artifact toward goyf.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 03:18:32 PM
So
Treasure cruise
Or ascendancy?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on November 05, 2014, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 03:18:32 PM
So
Treasure cruise
Or ascendancy?
I heard Aaron Forescythe is planning on banning both in Modern and TC in Legacy.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on November 05, 2014, 04:15:58 PM
I'd rather them ban {Glittering Wish}

Like how they banned {Seething Song}
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MacheteMable on November 06, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on November 05, 2014, 04:15:58 PM
I'd rather them ban {Glittering Wish}

Like how they banned {Seething Song}
that doesn't change very much though. The issue is the speed of the deck because of the card itself.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on November 06, 2014, 01:41:19 PM
Take out wish and the consistency is way off. Now you have to MB your win con which sounds funny but it means that if if gets Thoughtseized you're screwed bc you don't want to play more than 1 or 2
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Rass on November 07, 2014, 12:08:39 PM
I don't play that competive. But I would say give it a month or three. Then decide.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 09, 2014, 06:39:56 AM
So when this format was a wee laddy, multiple cards were banned to encourage diversity ({Wild Nacatl}, {Bitterblossom}, {Jace, the Wallet Rapist}, and {Stoned Mystic} to name a few). However, now that format has grown, these cards are beginning to seem a bit innocuous, such as how the Kitty and Fairy unbans really didn't do anything to the meta. So here is my thought: will WotC continue unbanning cards that were stowed away in the early days? Could {Jace, the Mind Sculptor} get unbanned in Modern (honestly, no one would successfully play him so long as {Treasure Cruise} and the 55% aggro meta is still around)? Could WoTC have been hedging against this eventual move with the creation of {Dreadbore} and {Hero's Downfall}? What else may come off the banlist? {Stoneforge Mystic}? {Ancestral Vision}?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: theravenseye on December 09, 2014, 07:01:40 AM
I'm assuming some new bannings will be {Treasure Cruise} and {Dig through Time}. I've seen the charts. Almost 20% of the modern decks are running Cruise and Dig
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on December 09, 2014, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Taysby on December 09, 2014, 11:23:08 AM
I'm hoping for an unban of {sensei's diving top}  Miracles FTW!

No. Just. No!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Rass on December 09, 2014, 12:26:24 PM
When is the ban list gonna be updated by wotc?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 09, 2014, 04:41:59 PM
Quote from: Rass on December 09, 2014, 12:26:24 PM
When is the ban list gonna be updated by wotc?
When Fate Reforged comes out next month (1/19/14)
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Rass on December 10, 2014, 09:22:27 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 09, 2014, 04:41:59 PM
Quote from: Rass on December 09, 2014, 12:26:24 PM
When is the ban list gonna be updated by wotc?
When Fate Reforged comes out next month (1/19/14)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Kaalia with haste on December 27, 2014, 12:34:57 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 11, 2014, 12:43:10 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 09, 2014, 04:41:59 PM
Quote from: Rass on December 09, 2014, 12:26:24 PM
When is the ban list gonna be updated by wotc?
When Fate Reforged comes out next month (1/19/14)

That's next month?  Geez, khans just barely came out...
It's been 3ish months
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 28, 2014, 10:29:52 PM
http://www.rebellion.es/magicrebel/articulo.php?idNoticia=3499
Website is in Spanish, but the important thing is what they claim is the change to the banned list:
(http://www.rebellion.es/img/mr/B&R_2.jpg)

I really hope this isn't true, I'm fine with TC ban and AV unban, but I don't think a Pod or DTT ban is necessary, and BBE should not be unbanned.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on December 28, 2014, 10:58:52 PM
Pod is not oppressive.  No way they ban it
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 28, 2014, 11:11:50 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on December 28, 2014, 10:58:52 PM
Pod is not oppressive.  No way they ban it
Yeah, but it is extremely prevalent. I am hoping as much as you that Pod isn't banned and this is fake, but some people have been asking for a pod ban for years.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Rass on December 29, 2014, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: Taysby on December 28, 2014, 11:57:14 PM
You know what works great as a pod ban?  Tron. 😜

Tron works great when you ban all other known and unknown decks. 😬😬😬😬
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: the_intelligentleman on December 29, 2014, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: Rass on December 29, 2014, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: Taysby on December 28, 2014, 11:57:14 PM
You know what works great as a pod ban?  Tron. 😜
Treasure Cruise will be banned in modern. I'm almost positive at this point.

Tron works great when you ban all other known and unknown decks. 😬😬😬😬
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: NovusOrbis on December 29, 2014, 11:17:39 AM
There's absolutely no way that list can be true.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Dstyle1 on December 29, 2014, 12:33:46 PM
I think 1 piece of tron should be banned!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on December 29, 2014, 01:45:43 PM
You guys are failing at properly quoting responses to people's posts. 😂
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 29, 2014, 03:40:30 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 29, 2014, 12:32:49 PM
I've played against u/r delver with cruise. I honestly don't think it should be banned. It's popular because of its price tag, but not oppressive or overpowered.
It is too prevalent, too good and it has warped the meta, ban it.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on December 29, 2014, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 28, 2014, 10:29:52 PM
http://www.rebellion.es/magicrebel/articulo.php?idNoticia=3499
Website is in Spanish, but the important thing is what they claim is the change to the banned list:
(http://www.rebellion.es/img/mr/B&R_2.jpg)

I really hope this isn't true, I'm fine with TC ban and AV unban, but I don't think a Pod or DTT ban is necessary, and BBE should not be unbanned.
I used chrome to translate the article and they were saying that the update was already announced, but WOTC hasn't said anything, so I think it's just bs. According to them the next announcement isn't until like the 19th or something. I'll be super pissed if pod is banned. I just bought into the format and got most of pod, and if they ban a deck that is doing abnormally well mostly because of a deck they're already banning being oppressive I'll be very disappointed, and down a large amount of money.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 29, 2014, 06:14:00 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on December 29, 2014, 05:18:02 PM
I used chrome to translate the article and they were saying that the update was already announced, but WOTC hasn't said anything, so I think it's just bs. According to them the next announcement isn't until like the 19th or something. I'll be super pissed if pod is banned. I just bought into the format and got most of pod, and if they ban a deck that is doing abnormally well mostly because of a deck they're already banning being oppressive I'll be very disappointed, and down a large amount of money.
Yeah, I agree it is likely BS, but it is possible that through a miscommunication or mistranslation, the information was given out too early. As far as Pod goes, I understand because I have all but 4 cards out of a Pod 75, and it is the deck I will be playing if UWR Control can't recover in the meta.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on December 29, 2014, 06:14:48 PM
Well tbh Pod is EXTREMELY POWERFUL!!! So is Scapeshift!!! Delver is REALLY FAST and can punish you hard! Twin can win outta nowhere and that's Modern it's a POWERFUL format!!! Please don't ban Pod bc that wrecks like 3 archetypes!!

Having said this Treasure Cruise should be banned for the same reason Deathrite is. Decks that shouldn't be able to run it do and it's excessively OP
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on December 29, 2014, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 29, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
I've played against it. It's meh. It just allows decks to not enter top deck mode. It itseKg doesn't do anything. It's not repeatable like Drs, it's not play this or die like Drs, etc

Uhhhh ya it is Delve is broken I doubt Dig will get banned but I wouldn't mind if it did. TC is almost always a game ended and can bring you back from the dead too
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on December 29, 2014, 07:54:49 PM
I'd be down for a dig ban. I HATE Scapeshift, and dig makes the deck REALLY GOOD.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 29, 2014, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 29, 2014, 07:35:15 PM
I'm mostly tired of people being unwilling to change their decks to fit the meta. {relic of progenitous} for christs sake!  Even shuts off snappy and golf, and can shut down pod. Doesn't necessarily hurt your own graveyard, and any deck can run it. It can even replace itself, but heaven forbid having to change your deck to stay competitive. 😜
Yeah, why won't people play mainboard hate that isn't even entirely affective and doesn't actually stop any of the one drop 3/2s or two drop 8/7s that are attacking you?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on December 29, 2014, 08:15:46 PM
Exactly ^^^ relic is mediocre at best
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 30, 2014, 12:33:35 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 12:15:49 AM
You are saying that relic doesn't really exile their graveyard?
It replaces itself so the takes up a spot argument is invalid

Who said anything about main boarding?
Relic is capable of one time exiling their graveyard, after which a fetchland, Gix Prop, SV, and Lightning Bolt all start adding back up to another TC. As for the mainboarding comment, many decks are starting to mainboard them because of its prevalence, and if you are sideboarding them, you are using 2-4 slots of your sideboard simply to fight a component of the deck, and on top of that, still need a {Pyroclasm}-esque affect, so now 6-8 of your sideboard cards are dedicated to Delver (if not more), and because of Delver's resiliency, that isn't enough. If you were to go up to 8-12, you start getting randomly screwed by other decks like {Living End} and Affinity. Fighting delver is a lose-lose for 90% of the decks in modern, and that is why {Scapeshift}, {Splinter Twin} and {Birthing Pod} are practically the only decks left in the competitive meta.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Dmreiss on December 30, 2014, 01:47:29 PM
They wouldn't unban DRS to counter Treasure Cruise, would they? Or is that just wishful thinking?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 30, 2014, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 01:10:44 PM
Agris, you forget about its tap ability

You also refuse to acknowledge that it's good against other decks like pod, control, living death, etc.
The tap ability isn't affective against Delver, it is marginal against Pod, Control is dead in modern, and so it Living End. So, it is an iffy card against one other deck.
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 01:19:47 PM
The problem with remand is you counter something with it, then they untap and play it again. It's a bad card and shouldn't be played in any deck. 😜
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, but it is obvious you don't understand Modern too well if you don't get why Remand is good. It is almost a time walk and practically as good as a counterspell a huge amount of the time. It gains huge tempo swings and can be used to protect combo quite effectively.

Quote from: Dmreiss on December 30, 2014, 01:47:29 PM
They wouldn't unban DRS to counter Treasure Cruise, would they? Or is that just wishful thinking?
Probably just wishful thinking, it really isn't effective against Delver
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 30, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 02:35:23 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 30, 2014, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 01:10:44 PM
Agris, you forget about its tap ability

You also refuse to acknowledge that it's good against other decks like pod, control, living death, etc.
The tap ability isn't affective against Delver, it is marginal against Pod, Control is dead in modern, and so it Living End. So, it is an iffy card against one other deck.
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 01:19:47 PM
The problem with remand is you counter something with it, then they untap and play it again. It's a bad card and shouldn't be played in any deck. 😜
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, but it is obvious you don't understand Modern too well if you don't get why Remand is good. It is almost a time walk and practically as good as a counterspell a huge amount of the time. It gains huge tempo swings and can be used to protect combo quite effectively.

Isn't effective?  If you use it every turn it turns their treasure cruise into a 4 or higher cmc spell.

You don't use the tap ability against pod, you use it to interrupt their infinite combos

You were the one who brought up living end, and it's good against any deck with snappy.

The remand argument is exactly what you are saying. It's bad because it just delays them one turn.
Delver can generate more than enough spells to make TC cheap, and remember Delving is part of the cost, so you can't "in response"

Most Pod decks don't run infinite combos any more, and the deck can and always will be able to beat your face.

Living End is dead, and Snappy is maybe a 2 of in some decks (I think Scapeshift is running the most at two), but that doesn't mean you won't see UWR Control or Living End some in early rounds of a tournament.

Since when is {Time Walk} a bad card? Most decks playing {Remand} just want to push into the late game, so delaying your opponent a whole turn and drawing a card to answer the card later is pretty amazing. Just think about it: UWx control wants to get into the Colonnade late game, URx Splinter Twin wants to combo around turn 5 or 6, and {Scapeshift} can't usually win until they have 6 or 7 lands. For all of those decks, {Remand} is able to push them out of the early game and into the late. Plus it can be used to protect combo, for example if someone leaves a mana open to try and {Dismember} my {Pestermite} in response to {Splinter Twin}, I Remand and win.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 30, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
Quote from: Taysby on December 30, 2014, 03:10:09 PM
I'm not saying remand is bad. I'm using it as an example of your flawed argument.

You obviously haven't played with relic. Give it a shot then come back to me
In the end Remand always has some sort of impact where as Relic does not. I have played with Relic for a while in my UWR control deck and the fact is the existence of relic shouldn't warrant Treasure Cruise's existance.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on December 30, 2014, 04:46:24 PM
Interesting, I just read a Chas Andres article on SCG (bought a week of premium, it's $4, worth the read) and he is predicting {Birthing Pod} gets banned because WoTC feels Modern is too stale. Andres is well respected dude, so there is a chance the leaked banlist is true. Think about it: if BP got banned the format would be entirely blue, so BBE could be necessary to help balance it out. If WotC is trying to shake up the meta, that is what they will do.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on December 30, 2014, 11:05:16 PM
 {Remand} also protects you. You can remand your own spell in response to them trying to counter it. You keep your spell, cantrip and force them to waste a spell.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: NovusOrbis on December 31, 2014, 12:42:48 AM
I'll be that guy

Both do something to impact the game. Which one is better depends on what you're playing against.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: blackychan1 on January 01, 2015, 02:51:14 AM
Another ban period will go by with no bannings or unbannings. There just isn't really a need for it right now.
     Sure, delver and blue are super popular. Before that it was burn/ RDW. People build what they can afford. That is what is meta warping. Not everyone can afford to build Pod. I am playing Pod, and I have no problem playing against delver. Not everyone can afford the Tarms for Jund. That is why delver is dominating the format.
     Besides, Low cost decks like delver and RDW will always be tier 1 simply due to speed snd vomiting their hand. No point in making it impossible to play delver by banning TC. People will just move back to burn.
     Ban {lightning bolt}. It's more prevalent than TC by far. It is meta warping. It'll shake the format plenty. Delver is less without bolt than it is without TC anyways.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 03, 2015, 05:05:34 PM
He was kidding about bolt btw^^

But good points though but remand although good is tricky bc the decks with TC and DTT also pack counters but we get what you're saying
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on January 04, 2015, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: Wizardmook on January 04, 2015, 06:10:07 AM
Yeah, but it's still just adjusting to certain decks. People go crazy about certain cards which aren't that good.
Which cards are you referring to that are not that good?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on January 04, 2015, 07:18:14 PM
Quote from: Wizardmook on January 04, 2015, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 04, 2015, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: Wizardmook on January 04, 2015, 06:10:07 AM
Yeah, but it's still just adjusting to certain decks. People go crazy about certain cards which aren't that good.
Which cards are you referring to that are not that good?

Basic lands............
😐
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 04, 2015, 07:26:13 PM
TC and DTT are bannable bc they are broken cards anyone who says that they aren't broken can look at the Vintage Legacy and Modern meta right now ...

BUT bc they're bannable doesn't mean that they HAVE to be banned but I suspect TC at least to be banned DTT may not though but {Ancestral Recall} in Modern is good? Who'd have thought!! Also sure they can be countered and messed up with GY hate but that's devoting your spells to screw that card and not on their 3/2 flier on T2 ..
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on January 04, 2015, 08:43:56 PM
Well said Mattao.  Point is that wizards makes hundreds of new cards a year and every once in a while we get these cards that push the boundaries.  I think it is neat they give us these awesome power level cards in common.  We sit back and complain about it when we should be appreciative of the vast amount of effort they put into keeping the game we love going strong.  (We give them vast amounts of money for their efforts but that is not the point 😜)
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 05, 2015, 12:05:18 AM
Quote from: Taysby on January 04, 2015, 10:43:28 PM
It's really good, but I don't feel like wizards should ban it. It's no ancestral recall. The reason it's p9 is because of its availability before turn 5.

True BUT it's still very close to it. It's just meta warping and extremely OP. If they ban it cool if not cool I don't really care and I can see both sides of the coin. :P
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 05, 2015, 06:57:28 AM
I think the biggest thing is that is kind of raises the bar in modern. I makes the format more powerful, thus limiting the number of viable decks in the format. The only decks that are doing well in the Cruise meta are Delver, Scapeshift, and Pod, and fringier decks like UW Tron, Counter-cat and such have just been forced out completely.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 05, 2015, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 05, 2015, 06:57:28 AM
I think the biggest thing is that is kind of raises the bar in modern. I makes the format more powerful, thus limiting the number of viable decks in the format. The only decks that are doing well in the Cruise meta are Delver, Scapeshift, and Pod, and fringier decks like UW Tron, Counter-cat and such have just been forced out completely.

And meta call decks lol RG Ramp (Valakut) are very well positioned and so is soul sisters apparently lol
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on January 05, 2015, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 05, 2015, 01:13:56 PM
If you try to say ban it because it has warped the meta, then ban snappy and bolt first. Yes, it is more common than other decks, but that is just because of its price tag and hype. Plenty of people would prefer to play expensive decks, they just can't afford it.

http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO

Really? Because a lot of pros have gone from playing expensive decks (pod) to delver because "casting treasure cruise is the best thing to be doing right now"
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 05, 2015, 05:41:26 PM
Taysby doesn't matter. Bolt is just a great piece of removal for everyone in R and Snappy fits in more decks bc of straight up value that doesn't give them the right to have TC and DTT bc Delver the deck that runs all 3 (Bolt TC and Snappy) gets a major playing advantage!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: imthelolrus on January 08, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Most likely bans:
{Jeskai Ascendency}
{Treasure Cruise}

Less likely ban:
{Dig Through Time}

Most likely unban:
{Golgari Grave-Troll}

That said, I really can't be sure what wizards will do, just that these are probably on their list of considerations. The troll is safe and wizards has a pattern of removing safe cards that they were just afraid of from the list. Others on the chopping block has been talked about to death.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 10, 2015, 05:04:17 PM
Anyone watching GP Omaha? TC and Delver is everywhere, and the attendance is really low (1100), so I just can't see TC not getting banned now.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on January 11, 2015, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 10, 2015, 05:04:17 PM
Anyone watching GP Omaha? TC and Delver is everywhere, and the attendance is really low (1100), so I just can't see TC not getting banned now.
Merfolk in Top4!!!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 11, 2015, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 11, 2015, 07:18:41 PM
Delver is insanely popular on mtgo. Didn't realize it was that bad until I got it 6 times in a row. (I was going off mtgtop8.com). People need to stop obsessing. Does it need to be banned? No. Would it cause a decrease in people playing it? Yes. If that's all you care about and not actual power level, then banning would solve the problem.
It is quite obvious from the day 2 metagame of GP Omaha that TC has warped the format. 17% Delver (despite all of the Delver hate), 23% Pod (the best anti-Delver deck).
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on January 11, 2015, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 11, 2015, 07:32:54 PM
Pod is arguably the best deck. It's not just good against delver. Also, tron and merfolk made top 8 so it seems pretty diverse.
Did you watch the billions of mirrors throughout coverage?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on January 11, 2015, 08:07:08 PM
Pod won GP Omaga.  Very quickly I might add.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on January 11, 2015, 08:20:24 PM
The top8 was diverse. Two delver, 1 pod, 1 merfolk, 1 azban, 1 Titan bloom, RG Tron... Can't remember the other
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 11, 2015, 08:25:14 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 11, 2015, 08:07:08 PM
Pod won GP Omaga.  Very quickly I might add.
Only because Spec punted the game.

Quote from: rarehuntertay on January 11, 2015, 08:20:24 PM
The top8 was diverse. Two delver, 1 pod, 1 merfolk, 1 azban, 1 Titan bloom, RG Tron... Can't remember the other
The top 8 is really not a good indicator, look at the day 2 meta game. Also, if you really look at the Top 8, every deck is either Pod or Delver, or has good matchups. The whole GP was really focused on Pod and Delver.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: rarehuntertay on January 11, 2015, 08:32:59 PM
The other deck was a scapeshift deck. And if the whole day 2 GP was made up of delver/pod, then why wasn't every deck in Top8 delver/pod? Only 37.5% were Top8.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 11, 2015, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on January 11, 2015, 08:32:59 PM
The other deck was a scapeshift deck. And if the whole day 2 GP was made up of delver/pod, then why wasn't every deck in Top8 delver/pod? Only 37.5% were Top8.
The whole day 2 GP wasn't Delver/Pod, but 23% was Pod and 17% was Delver, which are crazy numbers.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 11, 2015, 08:49:43 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 11, 2015, 08:39:33 PM
So the winning meta doesn't matter?  All that matters is that people on a budget build the best deck they can?
Taking just the top 8 is a horribly small sample size, and I would call the Day 2ers "the winning meta." The difference between top 8 and 9th is ridiculously tiny that it is almost negligible (just ask Shahar Shenhar would took an intentional draw in the last round, and put himself in 9th). You can also see that despite Delver facing A LOT of hate, it turned it's 17% day 2 share into 25% of the top 8, meaning it was performing pretty well. The winning meta shows Delver has 25% of the meta, which are the same levels Jund approached, when it was nerfed. The numbers don't lie, the format is unhealthy and something has to change.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: NovusOrbis on January 11, 2015, 09:25:44 PM
Aren't pod, tron, and Bloom Titan about the only decks that don't run TC? I've seen people splash blue in almost every deck type just to run it.

Even decks that use Goyf run it.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: fj76ts4 on January 11, 2015, 09:31:38 PM
Quote from: NovusOrbis on January 11, 2015, 09:25:44 PM
Aren't pod, tron, and Bloom Titan about the only decks that don't run TC? I've seen people splash blue in almost every deck type just to run it.

Even decks that use Goyf run it.

scapeshift/twin use DTT instead of TC.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: NovusOrbis on January 11, 2015, 09:34:41 PM
Quote from: fj76ts4 on January 11, 2015, 09:31:38 PM
Quote from: NovusOrbis on January 11, 2015, 09:25:44 PM
Aren't pod, tron, and Bloom Titan about the only decks that don't run TC? I've seen people splash blue in almost every deck type just to run it.

Even decks that use Goyf run it.

scapeshift/twin use DTT instead of TC.
This is true, but they didn't splash a new color to use it. They simply got a hella-good upgrade to {Peer Through Depths} and cards if the like.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 11, 2015, 09:40:32 PM
Quote from: NovusOrbis on January 11, 2015, 09:34:41 PM
Quote from: fj76ts4 on January 11, 2015, 09:31:38 PM
Quote from: NovusOrbis on January 11, 2015, 09:25:44 PM
Aren't pod, tron, and Bloom Titan about the only decks that don't run TC? I've seen people splash blue in almost every deck type just to run it.

Even decks that use Goyf run it.

scapeshift/twin use DTT instead of TC.
This is true, but they didn't splash a new color to use it. They simply got a hella-good upgrade to {Peer Through Depths} and cards if the like.
Sadly, GP Omaha even saw Twin and Scapeshift decks playing TC over DTT, largely because Owen Turtenwald wrote an article saying TC is simply the best card in Modern and advocated playing it over DTT.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Esper on January 12, 2015, 08:19:17 AM
Does nobody else think {Treasure Cruise} will be banned soon?...
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 12, 2015, 11:47:17 AM
Esper we all do lol I think Bantings happen next week on the 19th but I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Esper on January 12, 2015, 03:16:53 PM
XD
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 17, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
Bye bye jeskai ascendacy, and treasure cruise!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 17, 2015, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 17, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
Bye bye jeskai ascendacy, and treasure cruise!
I'm not sure Ascendency has to leave, but I agree with Cruise. As much as pros tried to sell Ascendency as some god, it i really just is a another toy for storm decks, the deck has been nerfed a few times before, and the the Ascendency version is really more vulnerable the all spells deck.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 09:45:04 PM
When's the update coming out?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 18, 2015, 09:45:45 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 09:45:04 PM
When's the update coming out?
11 am EST tomorrow. 8am PST
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: fj76ts4 on January 18, 2015, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 09:45:04 PM
When's the update coming out?

1/19/15 11am est
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 18, 2015, 09:45:45 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 09:45:04 PM
When's the update coming out?
11 am EST tomorrow. 8am PST

.love.!! Now I won't sleep tn!!!!!!!! Lol

My predictions:

Vintage:
TC- Restricted (maybe)

Legacy:

TC- Banned bc when within 4 months the card sees play in 36% of decks it's kinda big

Modern:

TC- Banned see above lol

{Blood Braid Elf} unbanned idk just a hunch plus a lotta ppl are speccing it

{Golgari Grave Troll} unbanned bc it shouldn't have been banned in the first place IMO
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 17, 2015, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 17, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
Bye bye jeskai ascendacy, and treasure cruise!
I'm not sure Ascendency has to leave, but I agree with Cruise. As much as pros tried to sell Ascendency as some god, it i really just is a another toy for storm decks, the deck has been nerfed a few times before, and the the Ascendency version is really more vulnerable the all spells deck.
Ok, but it still wins consistantly on turn 2-3. IMO its the fastest deck in modern
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 18, 2015, 10:22:38 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 17, 2015, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 17, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
Bye bye jeskai ascendacy, and treasure cruise!
I'm not sure Ascendency has to leave, but I agree with Cruise. As much as pros tried to sell Ascendency as some god, it i really just is a another toy for storm decks, the deck has been nerfed a few times before, and the the Ascendency version is really more vulnerable the all spells deck.
Ok, but it still wins consistantly on turn 2-3. IMO its the fastest deck in modern
That is simply not true. It can consistently win turn 4, but it doesn't consistently win turns 2 or 3, and the deck isn't that hard to disrupt. I hasn't really placed highly at any events except for the World Championship (which was the most inbred meta ever), so there is no reason to ban it right now, except maybe because of how much time it takes to combo out (similar to the {Second Sunrise} ban).
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:29:38 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 18, 2015, 10:22:38 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 17, 2015, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 17, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
Bye bye jeskai ascendacy, and treasure cruise!
I'm not sure Ascendency has to leave, but I agree with Cruise. As much as pros tried to sell Ascendency as some god, it i really just is a another toy for storm decks, the deck has been nerfed a few times before, and the the Ascendency version is really more vulnerable the all spells deck.
Ok, but it still wins consistantly on turn 2-3. IMO its the fastest deck in modern
That is simply not true. It can consistently win turn 4, but it doesn't consistently win turns 2 or 3, and the deck isn't that hard to disrupt. I hasn't really placed highly at any events except for the World Championship (which was the most inbred meta ever), so there is no reason to ban it right now, except maybe because of how much time it takes to combo out (similar to the {Second Sunrise} ban).
Oh ok, I guess your right, but if it doesn't someone will find something better to do with it.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:31:50 PM
If {treasure cruise} doesn't get banned, and Golgari grave troll gets unbanned, could we have a dredge, cruise deck?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:31:50 PM
If {treasure cruise} doesn't get banned, and Golgari grave troll gets unbanned, could we have a dredge, cruise deck?

Depends bc cruise wants you to exile stuff and troll needs it there .. So I doubt it
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 18, 2015, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:31:50 PM
If {treasure cruise} doesn't get banned, and Golgari grave troll gets unbanned, could we have a dredge, cruise deck?

Depends bc cruise wants you to exile stuff and troll needs it there .. So I doubt it
I think he means using Dredge to fuel Delve, but if that were the case, people would have done it with {Stinkweed Imp}
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 10:36:21 PM
My point is that. Of course delve + Dredge can be good but dredge decks run very few cards that are irrelevant from the GY other than lands and even lands matter bc of Loam
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 12:22:15 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 18, 2015, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 18, 2015, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 18, 2015, 10:31:50 PM
If {treasure cruise} doesn't get banned, and Golgari grave troll gets unbanned, could we have a dredge, cruise deck?

Depends bc cruise wants you to exile stuff and troll needs it there .. So I doubt it
I think he means using Dredge to fuel Delve, but if that were the case, people would have done it with {Stinkweed Imp}
Yes I do, I forgot about the other dredge cards.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:09:48 AM
Wizards screwed up. Pod, TC, and DTT are banned. {Golgari Grave Troll} is unbanned. So basically Wizards depowered the format, and gave us nothing.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:14:09 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:09:48 AM
Wizards screwed up. Pod, TC, and DTT are banned. {Golgari Grave Troll} is unbanned. So basically Wizards depowered the format, and gave us nothing.
Wait what, u must be kidding!?!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:14:40 AM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:14:09 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:09:48 AM
Wizards screwed up. Pod, TC, and DTT are banned. {Golgari Grave Troll} is unbanned. So basically Wizards depowered the format, and gave us nothing.
Wait what, u must be kidding!?!
Nope. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:19:08 AM
Holy big fat mother goose, I have to go sell my pods!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:19:19 AM
Quote from: ConanEdo on January 19, 2015, 11:14:41 AM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:14:09 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:09:48 AM
Wizards screwed up. Pod, TC, and DTT are banned. {Golgari Grave Troll} is unbanned. So basically Wizards depowered the format, and gave us nothing.
Wait what, u must be kidding!?!
I wish
There are a lot of people freaking out, so I wonder if they are already rethinking it. I hope they unban {Birthing Pod} within the year.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:23:20 AM
Anyhow, it will be interesting which new deck comes in to take BP's place. Its "good" for me so I can watch the pros play something I haven't seen 100,000 times.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on January 19, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
They literally just did exactly one of the worst things they could've done
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on January 19, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
They literally just did exactly one of the worst things they could've done
True dat.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Cender on January 19, 2015, 11:28:57 AM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on January 19, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
They literally just did exactly one of the worst things they could've done
Literally? Right up there with making the power 9 modern legal? Let's not jump too far to hyperbole. ;)
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:29:17 AM
Unless they banned something like bolt, path, git probe, serum visions.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:29:17 AM
Unless they banned something like bolt, path, git probe, serum visions.
That might be crazy!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:45:23 AM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:23:20 AM
Anyhow, it will be interesting which new deck comes in to take BP's place. Its "good" for me so I can watch the pros play something I haven't seen 100,000 times.
Junk will probably be the best deck, {Tarmogoyf}, {Liliana of the Veil}, and {Dark Confidant}s.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 11:45:23 AM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 11:23:20 AM
Anyhow, it will be interesting which new deck comes in to take BP's place. Its "good" for me so I can watch the pros play something I haven't seen 100,000 times.
Junk will probably be the best deck, {Tarmogoyf}, {Liliana of the Veil}, and {Dark Confidant}s.
Don't forget {siege rino}, and finks!
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 12:16:48 PM
I think Wizards found a way to piss of the maximum amount of people in one announcement. They could have at least unbanned a real card.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 12:46:58 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 12:25:16 PM
The reason for bannings and u bannings is to shake up the meta. Mario has said sometimes they ban something to spice up the meta regardless of how powerful it is.
Thats what I thought, but they could've unbanned a card that would do that too, I mean come on golgari grave troll.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Hunteroffire9 on January 19, 2015, 12:55:28 PM
I have a friend who only recently bought a pod deck, he's going to try to put together junk midrange because he has land base and just needs goyfs
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Dstyle1 on January 19, 2015, 01:23:24 PM
I guess I'm not playing modern anymore:/
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: lotrwk on January 19, 2015, 01:53:20 PM
With the banning of pod, I'm surprised that they didn't unban {punishing fire}. It punishes (hehe) midrange decks pretty well, and that's all there's going to be right now
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on January 19, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Holy crap. Looks like I'm a little late to the party, but I guess nobody got cake this time. On top of it the concession prize is a non-posable D-list McDonalds toy. I guess in not personally hit by this, but quite a few of my friends have already exclaimed their intentions to possibly quit Magic. Now I'm really going to hate myself for not getting goyfs.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
With pod out of rhe picture, could {genesis wave} ramp come back?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on January 19, 2015, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
With pod out of rhe picture, could {genesis wave} ramp come back?
It's probably going to hit tier 2, we still have some heavy hitters that were only strengthened by this update. I think the king of the hill, as most have said, will be BGx decks, followed by (in no particular order) Affinity, Scapeshift, Twin Variants and maybe even RDW, Fish and Tron (insert I-told-you-so Taysby comment here). Honestly it's still pretty wide open, but much of the core threats remain.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Hunteroffire9 on January 19, 2015, 02:45:32 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on January 19, 2015, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
With pod out of rhe picture, could {genesis wave} ramp come back?
It's probably going to hit tier 2, we still have some heavy hitters that were only strengthened by this update. I think the king of the hill, as most have said, will be BGx decks, followed by (in no particular order) Affinity, Scapeshift, Twin Variants and maybe even RDW, Fish and Tron (insert I-told-you-so Taysby comment here). Honestly it's still pretty wide open, but much of the core threats remain.
Im busting out my BW token deck that has an amazing BGx midrange matchup that I gained popularity before treasure cruise when the BGx decks were doing well. It does not have any bad matchups.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on January 19, 2015, 02:45:32 PMIt does not have any bad matchups.
BS

Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 12:25:16 PM
The reason for bannings and u bannings is to shake up the meta. Mario has said sometimes they ban something to spice up the meta regardless of how powerful it is.
Yes, this banlist update was to change up the meta for the Modern Pro Tour, but it sucks that we are taking long term sacrifices for short term "viewing pleasure."
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Z5 on January 19, 2015, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on January 19, 2015, 02:45:32 PMIt does not have any bad matchups.
BS

Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 12:25:16 PM
The reason for bannings and u bannings is to shake up the meta. Mario has said sometimes they ban something to spice up the meta regardless of how powerful it is.
Yes, this banlist update was to change up the meta for the Modern Pro Tour, but it sucks that we are taking long term sacrifices for short term "viewing pleasure."
I know, but this modern pro tour might be alot better/different w/o pod.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 03:18:44 PM
This is dumb!!! Pod should not be banned!! Idk why it is!! And it's kinda pissing me off
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 04:46:29 PM
Lol Taysby :D if they keep banning the good cards maybe Tron will be playable :P
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: MuggyWuggy on January 19, 2015, 04:59:22 PM
Was pod really that overwhelming? Wasnt it unbanned last year?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 05:12:08 PM
It was OP but that's fine bc decks ran hate for it and it was fine tbh I liked it bc it made modern powerful and that's what modern should be :P
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 05:22:51 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on January 19, 2015, 04:59:22 PM
Was pod really that overwhelming? Wasnt it unbanned last year?
No to both. The reason they gave for banning it was that it limited them printing creatures with good ETB abilities on standard.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Munchlax on January 19, 2015, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 05:12:08 PM
It was OP but that's fine bc decks ran hate for it and it was fine tbh I liked it bc it made modern powerful and that's what modern should be :P
You were a pod player I see. Care to join the hulk side of things?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
Never played pod actually lol I just loved the deck :P I play GR Ramp :P
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on January 19, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
I told you so ;)
A nay-sayer is always right.  The bad thing happens and you win cuz you were "right".  The bad thing does not happen and you win cuz the bad thing does not happen.

Besides all that....no one likes an "I told you so guy" 😐
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 06:57:13 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 19, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
I told you so ;)
A nay-sayer is always right.  The bad thing happens and you win cuz you were "right".  The bad thing does not happen and you win cuz the bad thing does not happen.

Besides all that....no one likes an "I told you so guy" 😐
Not to mention, he didn't tell us so, he just said Birthing Pod was a prominent deck, never said anything about banning it.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Dstyle1 on January 19, 2015, 08:32:41 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on January 19, 2015, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 05:12:08 PM
It was OP but that's fine bc decks ran hate for it and it was fine tbh I liked it bc it made modern powerful and that's what modern should be :P
You were a pod player I see. Care to join the hulk side of things?

I'm seriously thinking about it. I played naya pod so I don't have junk to fall back on.

Going to the last modern tourney on Wednesday to say goodbye to pod. :( I'm kinda sick right now.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 08:35:11 PM
Quote from: Dstyle1 on January 19, 2015, 08:32:41 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on January 19, 2015, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 19, 2015, 05:12:08 PM
It was OP but that's fine bc decks ran hate for it and it was fine tbh I liked it bc it made modern powerful and that's what modern should be :P
You were a pod player I see. Care to join the hulk side of things?

I'm seriously thinking about it. I played naya pod so I don't have junk to fall back on.

Going to the last modern tourney on Wednesday to say goodbye to pod. :( I'm kinda sick right now.
To be fair, not even Junk Pod players have Junk to fall back on, we would have to buy {Tarmogoyf}s, {Dark Confidant}s, and {Liliana of the Veil}s.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: cltrn81 on January 19, 2015, 08:46:07 PM
I so still have my BG Obliterator Rock put together will all the things.  I just need to get back one Lily I traded.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 19, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
I told you so ;)
A nay-sayer is always right.  The bad thing happens and you win cuz you were "right".  The bad thing does not happen and you win cuz the bad thing does not happen.

Besides all that....no one likes an "I told you so guy" 😐

I said it because someone said "insert I told you so remark from taysby" and I assumed he meant tron being a thing. Not related to bannings.
I see. What is your outlook for GR Tron? Obviously, you are losing one of your best match-ups, but do you think that the deck can fight what is likely to be the new tier 1?
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: fj76ts4 on January 19, 2015, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 19, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
I told you so ;)
A nay-sayer is always right.  The bad thing happens and you win cuz you were "right".  The bad thing does not happen and you win cuz the bad thing does not happen.

Besides all that....no one likes an "I told you so guy" 😐

I said it because someone said "insert I told you so remark from taysby" and I assumed he meant tron being a thing. Not related to bannings.
I see. What is your outlook for GR Tron? Obviously, you are losing one of your best match-ups, but do you think that the deck can fight what is likely to be the new tier 1?

tron also takes a big steamy dump all over jund and junk, but twin smashes it so i think it's kind of a 50/50 for tron here
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: the_intelligentleman on January 20, 2015, 07:56:12 AM
Tron will be played more, but have frequently bad match ups against other combo decks.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Kaalia with haste on January 20, 2015, 08:31:14 AM
Quote from: fj76ts4 on January 19, 2015, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 19, 2015, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 19, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 19, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
I told you so ;)
A nay-sayer is always right.  The bad thing happens and you win cuz you were "right".  The bad thing does not happen and you win cuz the bad thing does not happen.

Besides all that....no one likes an "I told you so guy" 😐

I said it because someone said "insert I told you so remark from taysby" and I assumed he meant tron being a thing. Not related to bannings.
I see. What is your outlook for GR Tron? Obviously, you are losing one of your best match-ups, but do you think that the deck can fight what is likely to be the new tier 1?

tron also takes a big steamy dump all over jund and junk, but twin smashes it so i think it's kind of a 50/50 for tron here
Junk/jund have fine tron matchups. Yea, their abrupt decays become almost worthless but with the amount of disruption they have they'll be fine (yes I realize inquisition isn't awesome against them but taking a map or sylvan scrying super notable and if inquisition really doesn't cut it, they can run duress) also tron has a really rough time fighting through liliana of the veil and if they can't kill te wurmcoil using her they'll just slaughter pact the thing and drop a tarmogoyf/scooze to block. Plus I haven't even talked about post board yet. BGx sides in this: stony silence fulminator Mage aven mindcensor and golgari charm (uses the regenerate mode against oblivion stones). And as I covered earlier, they're not at a lack of things to side out for these.
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Kaalia with haste on January 20, 2015, 01:06:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 20, 2015, 12:08:26 PM
Ummm no. I have no problem whatsoever fighting kind, their disruption or their Lilly. I-stone is a thing. Even if they do hit a map, I normally have very little problem putting together tron

In the side is torpor orb and pigging needle. In the main is o-stone. Twin gets screwed over
Whenever I play BGx on untap I do well against tron. Maybe I'm playing against poor tron players, but that's just my exerience
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Mattao19 on January 20, 2015, 05:22:18 PM
Kaalia if I go by my untap record I'd be in the area of 35-5 ... Never go by untap records bc the ppl on there are terrible. The tron players are god awful on it too (other than Taysby I've only played him once a longgggg ass time ago)
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Dstyle1 on January 20, 2015, 05:53:11 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 20, 2015, 05:22:18 PM
Kaalia if I go by my untap record I'd be in the area of 35-5 ... Never go by untap records bc the ppl on there are terrible. The tron players are god awful on it too (other than Taysby I've only played him once a longgggg ass time ago)

And we know how that turned out:/
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Teysa karlov on January 20, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
I for one am glad cos 8 rack now has less bad match ups, treasure cruise was a pain for me! And pod was I difficult one so good riddens! 
Title: Re: Ban List Discussion (speculation)
Post by: Munchlax on January 20, 2015, 10:16:53 PM
Hulk got better matchups now. It still will lose to an insane Bloom Titan draw but it would get wrecked by DTT in scapeshift