1 {Island}
2 {Plains}
4 {Watery Grave}
4 {Temple of Silence}
4 {Temple of Deceit}
4 {Godless Shrine}
2 {Swamp}
4 {Hallowed Fountain}
25 lands
2 {Blind Obedience}
1 {Elspeth, Sun's Champion}
1 {Mind Grind}
4 {Supreme Verdict}
4 {Azorius Charm}
2 {Jace, Architect of Thought}
2 {Far // Away}
3 {Sphinx's Revelation}
4 {Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver}
4 {Hero's Downfall}
2 {Detention Sphere}
2 {Jace, Memory Adept}
2 {Merciless Eviction}
2 {Warped Physique}
35 other spells
Sideboard
1 {Blind Obedience}
2 {Obzedat, Ghost Council}
3 {Negate}
1 {Merciless Eviction}
2 {Rest in Peace}
2 {Blood Baron of Vizkopa}
1 {Far // Away}
2 {Doom Blade}
1 {Planar Cleansing}
15 sideboard cards
Notes:
Win con is mill, then when they side in Planeswalker hate I side in {Obzedat, Ghost Council} and/or {Blood Baron of Viskopa}. I just loved the new {Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver} so much that a deck had to be built with him as the main win con. Him and Jace, of course.
|
Thoughts?
Tad too much variance for my taste.
And creatures can't hurt
Interesting take on esper. I like the planeswalker theme. One suggestion I can offer is to take the {Council of the Absolute} out of your sideboard. It doesn't do enough to warrent play, imho. I would add {Dispel}s to your sideboard. It is going to be one of the most powerful counterspells post-board in the control mirror. It will come down to who was more dispels when someone tries to resolve the game ending bomb. Don't be the guy with the fewest!
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on September 25, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
Interesting take on esper. I like the planeswalker theme. One suggestion I can offer is to take the {Council of the Absolute} out of your sideboard. It doesn't do enough to warrent play, imho. I would add {Dispel}s to your sideboard. It is going to be one of the most powerful counterspells post-board in the control mirror. It will come down to who was more dispels when someone tries to resolve the game ending bomb. Don't be the guy with the fewest!
I actually meant to have a 3rd copy of {Blind Obedience} and then one more slot open.
Quote from: Pirate John on September 25, 2013, 09:43:33 PM
Tad too much variance for my taste.
And creatures can't hurt
I am playing no creatures for a reason, I have them in the sideboard. Explain this "variance".
I think what pirates trying to say is he feels this deck is going in too many directions. Like elspeth is a great card to put the beats down, but cards like memory adapt and mind grind are trying to make the deck go in a different direction, like you're trying to control, boardwipe/spot-removal, resolve planes walkers, counter spells, AND mill your opponent? It just seems too randomized.
Quote from: JordanCirk on September 25, 2013, 11:42:21 PM
I think what pirates trying to say is he feels this deck is going in too many directions. Like elspeth is a great card to put the beats down, but cards like memory adapt and mind grind are trying to make the deck go in a different direction, like you're trying to control, boardwipe/spot-removal, resolve planes walkers, counter spells, AND mill your opponent? It just seems too randomized.
I have no counters, of course I am trying to board wipe (that is control), and the win con is mill. Elspeth is an alternate win con. I really don't get what you are getting at. You expanded two ideas (control and mill, which go together hand and hand) and made them five sub-ideas, one of which I am not even using.
Am I meant to take out my control elements and add {Traumatize} and {Tome Scour}? That brings this deck from competitive to casual in an instant. It is hard control with planes walkers as a wincon. I could potentially see taking out Elspeth and Gideon for more control but I think that would make the deck far less lethal in terms of actually winning.
{Mind Grind} is a one of because it is a finisher. I only want to draw it in games that go on an excessive amount of time and we are at a total stall. If I lose all my Ashiok and Jace, I cannot mill them any other way than {Mind Grind}. On the other hand, if the game goes that long so that I have lost my Walkers, then {Mind Grind} for 8 will win the game.
Also, I added {Planar Cleansing} to the sideboard against those decks that just do everything. Not trying to be hostile, btw, just explaining the deck if it wasn't evident in the beginning.
Variance = many types of cards. Less variance makes a deck more consistent and therefore more competitive. Competitive deck 101
Quote from: Pirate John on September 26, 2013, 03:55:11 AM
Variance = many types of cards. Less variance makes a deck more consistent and therefore more competitive. Competitive deck 101
But I don't see the variance I have here. I have answers to cards my opponents play and then planeswalkers to win me the game.
More or less what he is getting at is that since there is such a variance in card types, it wont be able to draw what you need to when the time comes. Having multiple ways to win isnt bad, but you have to be careful that you dont over do it.
Quote from: Estel2931 on September 26, 2013, 08:15:40 AM
More or less what he is getting at is that since there is such a variance in card types, it wont be able to draw what you need to when the time comes. Having multiple ways to win isnt bad, but you have to be careful that you dont over do it.
I don't feel I'm overdoing it, but if you guys think differently I'm open to suggestions.
Quote from: iTzTowelie404 on September 26, 2013, 08:29:20 AM
Quote from: Estel2931 on September 26, 2013, 08:15:40 AM
More or less what he is getting at is that since there is such a variance in card types, it wont be able to draw what you need to when the time comes. Having multiple ways to win isnt bad, but you have to be careful that you dont over do it.
I don't feel I'm overdoing it, but if you guys think differently I'm open to suggestions.
Bump, card suggestions or amounts of each card are welcome
For control decks an optimal game, one where you don't get run over on turn 4, you will see 1/3 to 1/2 or even more of your deck. It is very likely that you will see those finishers, having elspeth, mind grind, or other finishers in your hand befor they can be active give you less opportunities to answer your opposites threats. Optimally esper control needs to stabilize and they lay beats with a finisher. 4-6 finishers are a great number, planeswalkers should be limited to 4-5 main deck because by themselves they do not effectively counter threats of the format, rather they put pressure on your opponite. I think increasing spot removal and lowering board wipes to 3-4 will work out for this deck. 3-4 counters are almost nescary to any control statigy, the best being dissolve and syncopate, as of right now.
Quote from: Byerley121 on September 26, 2013, 03:55:27 PM
For control decks an optimal game, one where you don't get run over on turn 4, you will see 1/3 to 1/2 or even more of your deck. It is very likely that you will see those finishers, having elspeth, mind grind, or other finishers in your hand befor they can be active give you less opportunities to answer your opposites threats. Optimally esper control needs to stabilize and they lay beats with a finisher. 4-6 finishers are a great number, planeswalkers should be limited to 4-5 main deck because by themselves they do not effectively counter threats of the format, rather they put pressure on your opponite. I think increasing spot removal and lowering board wipes to 3-4 will work out for this deck. 3-4 counters are almost nescary to any control statigy, the best being dissolve and syncopate, as of right now.
What would you recommend, specifically? Jace is my draw power for now, best draw in standard ATM and takes place of {Think Twice}. Should I take out Elspeth? Gideon? Would like to hear further.
{Divination}
Quote from: JordanCirk on September 26, 2013, 05:54:52 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on September 26, 2013, 05:53:16 PM
Quote from: JordanCirk on September 26, 2013, 05:52:30 PM
{Divination}
He's just running sphinx
I just feel it needs more card draw that's all.
Not a fan of {Divination}, if anything I would play {Read the Bones} but I think I'm good on Draw.
Elspeth will be your best finisher in most games and can pose a serious problem for most decks, Gideon is questionable, If your set on running him I'd suggest putting him in the sideboard rather than the main board, ashiok and have are strictly sideboard cards against control, so is aetherling. The best draw power for esper is azorius charm, sphinx's revelation(after turn 5) and read the bones. I would suggest a planeswalkers split of 2-3 jace, 2 elspeth, 1 More if you have the slot(Gideon), consider thoughtseize because esper is a deck that likes trading one for one. As for the board wipes try 3 supreme verdict siding the 4th, life bane zombie is great because there will be a large movement towards green white in the beginning of constructed with theros. 2 detention spheres are very good in this format because they answer almost everything(except blood baron, damn blood baron makin all my removal worthless).
Quote from: Byerley121 on September 26, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Elspeth will be your best finisher in most games and can pose a serious problem for most decks, Gideon is questionable, If your set on running him I'd suggest putting him in the sideboard rather than the main board, ashiok and have are strictly sideboard cards against control, so is aetherling. The best draw power for esper is azorius charm, sphinx's revelation(after turn 5) and read the bones. I would suggest a planeswalkers split of 2-3 jace, 2 elspeth, 1 More if you have the slot(Gideon), consider thoughtseize because esper is a deck that likes trading one for one. As for the board wipes try 3 supreme verdict siding the 4th, life bane zombie is great because there will be a large movement towards green white in the beginning of constructed with theros. 2 detention spheres are very good in this format because they answer almost everything(except blood baron, damn blood baron makin all my removal worthless).
Alright, I already have the 2 D-Spheres. I have the Sphinx's, I have the charms. I am going to deter from read the bones cuz on turn 3 I would rather leave up mana for a kill spell or D-Sphere something. I understand what you are saying about Ashiok and I know he isn't optimal, but he is what this deck is built around. I like the idea of siding a {Supreme Verdict}, I will probably add another copy of {Hero's Downfall} in its place. I put Gideon there for just another way to answer aggro, but as I think about it he will either be gaining loyalty very slow or will be killed in one swing. I will likely replace him with either an Elspeth or one more copy of removal.
Made a few changes:
-1 {Gideon, Champion of Justice}
+1 {Hero's Downfall}
SB:
-3 {Swan Song}
+1 {Far // Away}
+2 {Doom Blade}