What is so bad about net decking? I see people saying things like "net decks are no fun", and things of the like. Don't get me wrong, I love to build my own decks, I am always creating a new pauper or EDH deck. But as far as competitive formats (the only one I play is modern, but the same would go for standard or legacy), net decks are the way to go more often than not. I appreciate a rogue deck placing at a tourney as much as the next person, but how often does that happen in comparison to net decks? Also, for me, it's just as fun to play with someone else's deck as it is to play my own. Lets discuss. Do you love or hate net decking, or are you somewhere in between?
I don't like when people see that someone won a pro tour, and then build that deck to the letter, and then brag about how good they are at Magic. All that shows is that they have the ability to pay for some cards. I don't really mind net decking, just don't flaunt it. I personally am not very creative at all, so I do net deck sometimes. However, I built a {U} tron deck before I realized it was a thing, and I've got a homebrew white weenie and homebrew Tfog that I've fallen in love with. It's more fun to play a deck if it is your deck, not somebody else's. know what I mean?
I don't like net decking because I don't like the idea of taking someone else's idea and winning with it, I'd rather put together my own deck and lose than copyright someone.
I don't see a problem with net decks. On the tournament level, people do it because they're proven, and they're there to win. 0% of people compete in hopes of NOT winning, so why wouldn't you net deck if it helps you reach that goal? Im an against-the-grain type of person anyway, so I love rogue decks, but I don't get mad at people who "copy" decks. Unless someone is being a turd and I need something to exploit because I'm a vindictive person. But that's another thread for another time.
95% of Magic players also have work and school to focus on, and thus aren't afforded the time it takes to tweak a deck for competitive play, so they net deck. I'd love to devote 100% of my time to making a competitive standard deck that isn't naya, jund, or junk, but bills need to be paid and my wife needs attention too. There's also net decks that have rogue elements to them. My favorite deck to play is my LEDless legacy dredge deck, which has a homebrew feel to it. Other than a few cards, its a standard dredge list but its still a ton of fun to play.
For playing in any competitive arena, including FNM, I will net deck for the shell, then tweak it slightly for my meta (example is I use {Fiendslayer Paladin} in main on my G/W midrange for standard because my opponents love targeted red and black removal).
When just farting around with casual, I make and try out new deck ideas, like my mono black apostle deck.
My main argument to people who hate seeing net decks is this: if you want to win a race, why try using square wheels? If the pros are playing these style decks why not use them? They are playing them because the decks are proven to be more effective and have a higher probability of winning.
I don't like net decks because you lose a crucial piece of the magic learning curve. Figuring out what works well together will help you win. That being said I also firmly believe that if anyone on here took an LSV deck and he took ours, 9 times out of 10 LSV would still win. Having the best deck is only a small part of being able to win at magic so don't deny yourself the experience it takes to get better and better and that is brewing.
Quote from: Kagain123 on August 08, 2013, 02:44:53 PM
For playing in any competitive arena, including FNM, I will net deck for the shell, then tweak it slightly for my meta (example is I use {Fiendslayer Paladin} in main on my G/W midrange for standard because my opponents love targeted red and black removal).
When just farting around with casual, I make and try out new deck ideas, like my mono black apostle deck.
My main argument to people who hate seeing net decks is this: if you want to win a race, why try using square wheels? If the pros are playing these style decks why not use them? They are playing them because the decks are proven to be more effective and have a higher probability of winning.
This is what I will do. Sometimes ill look at some net decks and get some ideas for a cool combo, or like Kagain said, the "shell" of the deck and make slight tweaks to match my play style or match the meta I play against. All in all, I don't mind net decks. Lets face it, the Internet is here to stay and in my opinion is an acceptable resource.
I only net deck if I have made something similar and need a sideboard but otherwise it shouldn't be used .
I don't see a problem with it but u don't like it. I like to make my own deck. But if I do net deck, I like to put some spices on it
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 08, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
acceptable resource.
Exactly. It should be treated more of a resource than anything. If you have an idea of a deck, why wouldn't you look at similar decks to get an idea of where to go with it? I think this is especially acceptable in standard where the card pool isn't as vast as legacy or modern.
I'm in between. There's nothing wrong with net decking per se, and if you want to survive on a highly competitive level, you do need to see which cards are at the top and use net decking as a tool to survive.
But what I don't like about it is that it puts a bit of a damper on creativity. I like home brews with a passion - people using their own minds to come up with new, effective ideas on their own makes me happy, because I really like it when people are encouraged to think critically and come up with their own ideas.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no intelligence in net decking. I understand that there is - you have to adapt it as the meta changes, make your own tweaks, and intelligently use your sideboard and play to the deck's full capability by being smart. I get that. But to make a homebrew that does the same and competes on the same level? Requires all that, a creative mind, and more.
Maybe I live in a fantasy world, but I want people to use their brains as much as possible. I have a deep respect for creation.
I think everyone net decks to some degree if you think about. This digital age, even the use of this app, causes one to utilize others ideas, even if unintentional.
It becomes almost impossible not to get inspiration from others etc.
I would define Net decking as taking a top tier deck and rebuilding it to the best of your ability, maybe tweaking a few things. That being said, I think net-decking is terrible. One of the many joys of Magic is discovering combos and playing to work the kinks out of a deck, net-decking destroys that joy. Its okay to net-deck in the beginning or if you are just getting into a format, so that you can get a feel for what works and doesn't work but if you are a true Magic player, for the most part, you shouldn't be net-decking. You can use it for ideas and maybe as a basic outline (or shell, good analogy Kagian!) but the more it is yours the better. Be creative, work with friends, have fun, there is no need to net-deck, play to have fun and maybe win, not win and maybe have fun.
I like how people say net decking is bad because it takes out the creativity.
Hmm, the entire card game is based around creativity.
We are using mythical and magical beasts and monster. Where is the lack of creativity? And, I don't really enjoy spending hours upon days putting together a really crappy deck that gets its face thrown in at an FNM. Sorry, I do not enjoy losing, so why not take examples from winning decks. And remember, every single net deck started as a home brew. People just enjoyed it and played it after it premiered.
I don't like to net deck cuz it's not MY deck that won so I donno I guess I just feel like its cheating (no offense to any body that likes to).
Considering MtG is based around cards that were created by someone else, saying that anything in the game is truly original is grasping at straws, in my opinion. I'm fairly certain that R&D had play tested top tier decks before they were ever a twinkle in anyone's eye.
And also, do any of you realize that just because you put together a "net deck" doesn't mean absolute crap on player skill or ability?
That's how people win competitively, it's not the deck. It's the players.
I can't tell you how many times I won against American midrange or wolfrun back in the day and destroyed them because they had no clue how to play.
Quote from: Mothaelon on August 08, 2013, 06:33:23 PM
I like how people say net decking is bad because it takes out the creativity.
Hmm, the entire card game is based around creativity.
We are using mythical and magical beasts and monster. Where is the lack of creativity? And, I don't really enjoy spending hours upon days putting together a really crappy deck that gets its face thrown in at an FNM. Sorry, I do not enjoy losing, so why not take examples from winning decks. And remember, every single net deck started as a home brew. People just enjoyed it and played it after it premiered.
It doesn't take out creativity, it limits it. If you brew your own deck it is by definition MORE creative than net decking. That said there is nothing wrong with net decking, I just prefer to brew my own. I do look at net decks and use ideas I find there. If you prefer using net decks because of time constraints or for whatever reason more power to you.
I think net decking is okay for getting an idea and then making it your own. But if you are just copying it without any changes, then what is the point?
What is frustrating happened at an FNM. I had just home brewed a B/W/R deck to try out. The top 4 all played {Voice of Resurgence} and {Restoration Angel}. My deck did horribly against it and it was completely unsatisfying. By about the third game I could predict what was in their deck. One of my opponents completely misplayed it and should have beat me a few turns earlier than he did. And really, just because you can buy expensive decks does not mean you can play Magic.
In short, I don't think net decking adds anything to the game. Net decking just rewards those that want to copy and have the cash to buy the hot new card each rotation.
Some decks you could say I net deck like gruul aggro I don't copy the list but if you want to be competative there is a small ammount of cards you can chose from. But if its a deck like jund I prefer to chose how much and what removal I use and what creatures and plains walkers but with something like gruul you only have a few 3 drops like domri, rekoner, or Phoenix, but with jund I can think of about 12 different spells of removal. I'm more of a net decker when I play aggro but when I play midrange or control since there's so manny options I play what is the most fun;)
You realize the prices of the cards are nearly solely based on their impact?
Like, it's expensive because it is a grey card. And decks play them because they are the best. You can't get mad because its a good card then blame it on net decking.
I have one word to say about net decking: PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPHHHH
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Insert raspberry, and fart noises here)
I have nothing against net deckers. It's the act of net decking that I don't like. It seems lazy, and uncreative. I'd like to win competitively, but I'd rather lose with a deck I made up, than win with a deck I ripped off of someone else
Ok, that was more than one word, but still. I don't like netdecking
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 09:31:06 PM
I have one word to say about net decking: PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHTTTT
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Insert raspberry, and fart noises here)
I have nothing against net deckers. It's the act of net decking that I don't like. It seems lazy, and uncreative. I'd like to win competitively, but I'd rather lose with a deck I made up, than win with a deck I ripped off of someone else
Ok, that was more than one word, but still. I don't like netdecking
Amen!
This could be considered a touchy subject because some people hate it or some people love it. I could see it getting into an argument.
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
So winning at competitive levels isn't an aspect of magic? Please go on and tell me how your opinions are what is completely right on what magic means to people. And you know how much money I spend on net decking? None
I trade, it's not a hard concept.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
Hmm. That is a curious assumption as Noah and I haven't "doled" out any notable amount cash for our decks. We also brew decks regularly, but those are not the decks that we take to competitions.
The level of hate in this discussion is very lopsided. Pro-net deckers couldn't are less, while anti-net deckers are passionate about not being a net decker.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
That's not fair! I dole out cash AND build my own decks, they are not mutually exclusive.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
You're aware of what a Spike is, yeah?
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 09:53:13 PM
The level of hate in this discussion is very lopsided. Pro-net deckers couldn't less, while anti-net deckers are passionate about not being a net decker.
I don't technically make my own decks I take net decks and spice them up, make junk, junk wolfrun, and add red to reanimater, or if I'm playing esper splash green or red, naya add black, gruul add Abit of white, naya blitz make it 4 color aggro etc. I feal like I have to change it Abit to feal better about winnig or just make my own deck.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 09:55:15 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
You're aware of what a Spike is, yeah?
From MaRo "Spike is the competitive player. Spike plays to win. Spike enjoys winning. To accomplish this, Spike will play whatever the best deck is. Spike will copy decks off the Internet. Spike will borrow other players' decks. To Spike, the thrill of Magic is the adrenalin rush of competition. Spike enjoys the stimulation of outplaying the opponent and the glory of victory.
Spike cares more about the quantity of wins than the quality. For example, Spike plays ten games and wins nine of them. If Spike feels he should have won the tenth, he walks away unhappy."
In my opinion, if you are only playing to win, there is no point in playing. It's a game, play to have fun.
I personally think one doesn't have to lop out a bunch of cash and can still make a competitive deck. You don't need to copy other players. There are literally hundreds of strategies and possibly archetypes out there that haven't been discovered. You just need to tinker until that aha! Moment. Or you can look at a card, see what goes with that card, and run with it. You don't need to net deck to become a winner. Top players come up with new decks, and people copy them. But guess what? There top players that Come Up With There Own Decks! If everyone net decked all the time, no new decks would ever be created. So there
And another thing. Trying to come up with something new actually makes you smarter. Copying something already established just makes your brain lazy
Damn this is a hot topic people keep posting.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 09:55:15 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
There's no argument here. There's people who appreciate net decking, and then there's everyone else, who is wrong. 😜
No, there are people who enjoy all of the aspects of Magic (including deck building) and there are people who would rather just dole out cash so they can feel accomplished.
You're aware of what a Spike is, yeah?
From MaRo "Spike is the competitive player. Spike plays to win. Spike enjoys winning. To accomplish this, Spike will play whatever the best deck is. Spike will copy decks off the Internet. Spike will borrow other players' decks. To Spike, the thrill of Magic is the adrenalin rush of competition. Spike enjoys the stimulation of outplaying the opponent and the glory of victory.
Spike cares more about the quantity of wins than the quality. For example, Spike plays ten games and wins nine of them. If Spike feels he should have won the tenth, he walks away unhappy."
In my opinion, if you are only playing to win, there is no point in playing. It's a game, play to have fun.
And winning can't be fun? Sorry
More crap. I enjoy winning. It's fun. Just because It isn't fun to you, doesn't mean it's not fun for others.
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:00:05 PM
I personally think one doesn't have to lop out a bunch of cash and can still make a competitive deck. You don't need to copy other players. There are literally hundreds of strategies and possibly archetypes out there that haven't been discovered. You just need to tinker until that aha! Moment. Or you can look at a card, see what goes with that card, and run with it. You don't need to net deck to become a winner. Top players come up with new decks, and people copy them. But guess what? There top players that Come Up With There Own Decks! If everyone net decked all the time, no new decks would ever be created. So there
And another thing. Trying to come up with something new actually makes you smarter. Copying something already established just makes your brain lazy
Yep. There were a bunch of people running high dollar control, elf hexproof, ect. Net-decks at my LGS. I went out, made a $20 Boros Aggro deck and got first place.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
In my opinion, if you are only playing to win, there is no point in playing. It's a game, play to have fun.
But... Winning IS fun. And for some of us, winning supports our habit.
I post something 80 seconds later there are 2
More comments...
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 10:04:47 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
In my opinion, if you are only playing to win, there is no point in playing. It's a game, play to have fun.
But... Winning IS fun. And for some of us, winning supports our habit.
i think someone can find a balance between winning and being creative though
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 10:04:47 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
In my opinion, if you are only playing to win, there is no point in playing. It's a game, play to have fun.
But... Winning IS fun. And for some of us, winning supports our habit.
For me I like to win(and do) but I feal more honor playing a harder deck like combo or control.
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
+1 perfectly saide.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
+1 perfectly saide.
Boom! Welcome to the hundreds, CV! 👏
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
I understand this, but some people play for different reasons and I respect that. As long as you enjoy the game it does not matter.
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
It does for you, but not everyone is you. A blunt statement maybe, but I think everyone needs to be reminded of that fact every now and then, me included.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
I understand this, but some people play for different reasons and I respect that. As long as you enjoy the game it does not matter.
Isn't that way magic is so popular, people like it and play it for different reasons.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:16:24 PM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
I understand this, but some people play for different reasons and I respect that. As long as you enjoy the game it does not matter.
Isn't that way magic is so popular, people like it and play it for different reasons.
Some people ride bikes to exercise, some people ride then for fun, some people have to for transportation, and some people do it for winning tournaments.
This is what magic is like.
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
No, not really.
You don't have to make decks to discover cards.
There are card databases. Enjoy.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:16:24 PM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 08, 2013, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:09:17 PM
Buying a net deck is the exact equivalent to buying an event deck. Only net decks actually win. There's nothing wrong with playing what works. It's really that simple.
but this takes all the joy out of the discovery aspect of the game
I understand this, but some people play for different reasons and I respect that. As long as you enjoy the game it does not matter.
Isn't that way magic is so popular, people like it and play it for different reasons.
Some people ride bikes to exercise, some people ride then for fun, some people have to for transportation, and some people do it for winning tournaments.
This is what magic is like.
It's that simple just do what you like to do and magic and let them do what they like and enjoy the game for different reasons.
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 08, 2013, 10:04:47 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
In my opinion, if you are only playing to win, there is no point in playing. It's a game, play to have fun.
But... Winning IS fun. And for some of us, winning supports our habit.
Bam! Exactly! There exists people who play competitively as their career choice. More or less, that's all the pro tour folks. There's also people constantly trying to break into that circuit, and for them, net decking is the fastest, easiest way to do so. If youre trying to go pro, why would you go through the trouble of play testing a new deck that hasn't been done when you could instead play a proven deck and start putting in work at PTQs, opens, etc. in that same amount of time?
Fun in magic comes from different standpoints for each person. I'm a deck builder and that's alot of fun for me. I like going to my buddies and making a deck out of his left over cards and then running the table with it. 5 of his decks are ones I made. Other people would much rather just play, which I can understand. Most of the thrill for me is when my opponent notices my off the wall combos and synergies. I love when people learn new combos off of decks I make, this is why I don't net deck.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
Some people like doing that and some people like making there own, i think people should respect each others opinions and just do what they like...after all it's just a game!
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
Just because you net decked doesn't mean you know how to play the deck. Player skill comes into play a lot more than you think.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
You still have to pilot a deck, sideboard, etc. It does require skill, and it is still considered a win. The fact that someone, somewhere else is playing the same deck is irrelevant.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
But...some people...only care...about...winning.
It's not a hard concept to grasp.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
So how many cards do I have to change in a net deck to call it my own, and "win", by your definition? One? Five? Twenty? If I run a red deck wins deck and win, did I really not win because someone else did it before? According to you, once the best deck has been discovered and wins a tourney, it is impossible for anyone to win with it again. All decks are a one-shot, one trick pony.
I've got news for you, just because someone else did something for you, doesn't take away the fact that you reached your goal.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on August 08, 2013, 10:29:23 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
So how many cards do I have to change in a net deck to call it my own, and "win", by your definition? One? Five? Twenty? If I run a red deck wins deck and win, did I really not win because someone else did it before? According to you, once the best deck has been discovered and wins a tourney, it is impossible for anyone to win with it again. All decks are a one-shot, one trick pony.
I've got news for you, just because someone else did something for you, doesn't take away the fact that you reached your goal.
Wow your just nailing it today.
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
What's our view on pauper players who net deck? The average pauper deck price is like $10 ({gush} and {daze} aside) and you keep mentioning people who can spend the most on cards. So im curious as to what your viewpoint on pauper net decks is.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
I completely agree. I font feel like my opponent beat me; I feel like their deck did.
I also don't believe that net decks should be at FNM's. These are supposed to be less competitive. PTQ or other tournament fine, but FNM is not supposed to be that level of competition.
Awe poor baby :(
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:38:07 PM
I quit! I'm done with this conversation, keep net-decking but if you want to try the full experience of Magic and enjoy the game more, try designing your own decks.
I think maybe you missed the part where most of us told you that we net deck but also brew, we just don't take home brews to tourneys. Or maybe I missed the part where you posted your credentials that state that you're the end all expert in "what this game is about".
Quote from: Dmreiss on August 08, 2013, 10:37:16 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
I completely agree. I font feel like my opponent beat me; I feel like their deck did.
I also don't believe that net decks should be at FNM's. These are supposed to be less competitive. PTQ or other tournament fine, but FNM is not supposed to be that level of competition.
It actualy is when you play with 50-100 people playing competative decks and its a big deal when you get first...
So I guess you can't use cards that are good either.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
Yeah I feel that. But that isn't really the issue of whether netdecking is OK or not, it's more like an issue of how people play. I, like you, hate smug players. Sore winners are worse than sore losers. I, like you, hate losing because I didn't have the money for snappys so I had to use archaeomancer or whatever. But I don't think there's anything wrong with spending money and winning with it.
It isn't fair that some people can afford better decks than others, but think of it this way: there are two cars at a red light. One is a junky car driven by a college student trying to get by (me...hahah). One is a lambo driven by a college student of the same age, whos parents bought him a...well, lambo. Which one will accelerate faster and beat the other car? The lambo. If the kid knows how to drive it, that is. Why? Because he had more money. The poor kid would buy a lambo if he could, but he simply lacks the funds. His life is different, and that's maybe not fair. But it's reality.
I feel it's that way with magic decks. When I have the money to buy my modern deck, I will. Until then, I will either get beaten by expensive decks or not play competitive modern.
There's nothing wrong with a player using his funds (i.e parents) to buy good singles. It's just when he thinks he's a better person/player than you when he crosses the line from having good luck in life to being an asahole.
Quote from: Dmreiss on August 08, 2013, 10:37:16 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
I completely agree. I font feel like my opponent beat me; I feel like their deck did.
I also don't believe that net decks should be at FNM's. These are supposed to be less competitive. PTQ or other tournament fine, but FNM is not supposed to be that level of competition.
I see where you're coming from with the FNM thing, but since standard has such a limited card pool, you'd be hard pressed to find a homebrew that doesn't share a few ideas/cards with a more successful pro tournament level deck.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 10:46:21 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on August 08, 2013, 10:37:16 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
I completely agree. I font feel like my opponent beat me; I feel like their deck did.
I also don't believe that net decks should be at FNM's. These are supposed to be less competitive. PTQ or other tournament fine, but FNM is not supposed to be that level of competition.
I see where you're coming from with the FNM thing, but since standard has such a limited card pool, you'd be hard pressed to find a homebrew that doesn't share a few ideas/cards with a more successful pro tournament level deck.
Yeah thus is how I feal, and not all net decks are 500 dollars you can make one for about 60
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 10:27:55 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
But...some people...only care...about...winning.
It's not a hard concept to grasp.
others also like being unique. But I guess many different viewpoints do exist in the game. Still, I don't really like net decking
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 10:27:55 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
But...some people...only care...about...winning.
It's not a hard concept to grasp.
others also like being unique. But I guess many different viewpoints do exist in the game. Still, I don't really like net decking
You can not like it all you want. But telling people that when they place with a net deck that its not a real win, that's going a bit far.
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 08, 2013, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 10:27:55 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:20:50 PM
If you net-deck, you didn't win. You were able to replicate what another, better player was able to do. Congrats, you know how to mimic people.
But...some people...only care...about...winning.
It's not a hard concept to grasp.
others also like being unique. But I guess many different viewpoints do exist in the game. Still, I don't really like net decking
I never said anything ill of people who homebrew. I even expressed my love of rogue decks! I love homebrewing more than anything. I also see the necessity for net decks.
My whole point is there are people who like to be unique and win, and people who like to win but don't care about being unique. Both sides are very real. Bitching about one side or the other is nonsense. Since the anti-net deck people were bashing net decks, while the pro-net deck people werent bashing the other side at all, I felt compelled to defend the net deck side.
Couldn't have said it better. I have never net decked. Know why? Because I am poor and if I build an expensive deck, it will be one I made myself. But someday, when I have a decent job, you bet I'll net deck! I would love to play the top decks and win with them, and saying it's wrong for people to fulfill the selves by playing Magic in the way that gives them the most satisfaction is pure insanity!!!
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 08, 2013, 10:46:21 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on August 08, 2013, 10:37:16 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
I realize that player skill comes in when net-decking and I realize that sometimes its necessary to get into the pro tour, I just get pissed off when people at FNM think they are the best just because they spent $500. Yes, you can beat net-decks with superior skill but it makes the playing field extremely uneven. When your opponent has a deck full of Shocklands, Snappys, {Sphinx's Revelation}s, {Thundermaw Hellkite}s and other high price cards, they have a better chance at winning and then they think they are better that you because your $10 budget aggro can't beat the deck their World Championship deck. That is what annoys me about net-decking.
I completely agree. I font feel like my opponent beat me; I feel like their deck did.
I also don't believe that net decks should be at FNM's. These are supposed to be less competitive. PTQ or other tournament fine, but FNM is not supposed to be that level of competition.
I see where you're coming from with the FNM thing, but since standard has such a limited card pool, you'd be hard pressed to find a homebrew that doesn't share a few ideas/cards with a more successful pro tournament level deck.
You make a solid point. And I can appreciate certain card interactions being popular. It is when it becomes an exact copy of a PTQ deck is when I have a problem.
I believe that net-decking does not foster player growth. It allows mediocre players to place higher than their abilities.
Aren't most net decks originally home brewed? I mean if you think about it, someone had to come up with the idea before it hits the Internet. This is what I consider a challenge...I want to make the next net deck before it hits the net. Whenever I make a solid deck ill take it to my lgs and wreck face...a week or two later ill see the my deck or one similar to it bc it worked and took 1st. It's the same thing as net decking essentially and I don't really look down on it. Everyone's used combos and synergies that someone else concocted. It's all the same even tho its on a smaller scale. Correct?
Quote from: Taysby on August 08, 2013, 11:46:13 PM
Combos are ok. A whole deck isn't.
Ok but where's the line? If you see an amazing r/u and an amazing b/g and decide to use the two decks best combos and make a whole deck out of it is that wrong? The decks completely different but none of it is your ideas.
Quote from: Vampyvyrus on August 08, 2013, 11:49:29 PM
Quote from: Taysby on August 08, 2013, 11:46:13 PM
Combos are ok. A whole deck isn't.
Ok but where's the line? If you see an amazing r/u and an amazing b/g and decide to use the two decks best combos and make a whole deck out of it is that wrong? The decks completely different but none of it is your ideas.
But if you can make those two combos work in a single deck that is pretty good and takes development. I would say that would qualify as a new deck.
It's one thing to get ideas from top decks, it's another to copy that deck to a T. Magic is about being creative, there is no creativity in copying another persons deck exactly.
Quote from: Vampyvyrus on August 08, 2013, 11:44:44 PM
Aren't most net decks originally home brewed? I mean if you think about it, someone had to come up with the idea before it hits the Internet. This is what I consider a challenge...I want to make the next net deck before it hits the net. Whenever I make a solid deck ill take it to my lgs and wreck face...a week or two later ill see the my deck or one similar to it bc it worked and took 1st. It's the same thing as net decking essentially and I don't really look down on it. Everyone's used combos and synergies that someone else concocted. It's all the same even tho its on a smaller scale. Correct?
Neg karma for this? Just stating my thoughts. It is a discussion after all. Grow up. Anywho I'm not condoning net decking as I've stated previously I nvr do it bc I enjoy making them myself. I'm just trying to say that everyone feeds off everyone else's decks. Playing decks is a good way to learn new combos and synergies. If someone plays with a net deck and they win, good for them. But I guarantee my home brew will still compete and more often then not I win.
Sorry I had a hissy fit yesterday, I was pissed off at some other people and just didn't want to deal with anything. I apologize, it was immature and I'll try not to do it again. I am also sorry if people felt I was bashing them, I am fine with some net-decking but I get mad when people with no skill show up at FNM and other more casual tournaments and think they are the best just because they have the "Top Tier Decks".
The type of net decking I don't like is when people go out and just find the world cup decks and replicate them, I don't have a problem with people looking at other people's deck designs and then trying to build around that idea, that takes thought and some knowledge of the game (sometimes even more than deck building). The whole "switch a few cards around" thing, I meant when people go "oh, this isn't a net-deck, the world pro deck runs two {Sphinx's Revelation}s, I run three" and other such nonsense, as long as you have put actual thought into reworking the deck, I would no longer consider it a net-deck. When I was saying I hate net-decking and when you net-deck it isn't a win, I wasn't talking about at tournaments I was talking about more casual play, like I said earlier sometimes net-decking is necessary at more competitive tournaments. That being said I still think that home-brewing is the best way to make a deck. It allows you to express your creativity and I look at deck building as a puzzle that begs to be solved.
Lastly, people who take FNM too seriously. (IMO) FNM is supposed to be a fun place where people can show up, get into Magic, have fun playing Magic and learn about the game through experience. It should be a fun and casual place where people can go who are trying to get into Magic, but people who only use top tier Net-decks at FNM are actually discouraging the growth of the Magic community. Trust me, I know what I am talking about here. Me and my friends play standard decks casually every day at school during lunch and have actually started a club that meets weekly (and got an adviser and everything), they love the game but they know that if they go to FNM, there is a good chance they will just be crushed by some jerk who thinks he is the best in the world because he is running the best deck in the world. If you are only going to win, please go to bigger tournaments, if FNM were intended to be hard-core tournaments the admission would be higher (at my LGS it's $5 and you get a pack).
I hope that this cleared things up and I think that most of the opinions expressed here can be agreed upon by both the pro- and con-net-decking crouds.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 09, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
Sorry I had a hissy fit yesterday, I was pissed off at some other people and just didn't want to deal with anything. I apologize, it was immature and I'll try not to do it again. I am also sorry if people felt I was bashing them, I am fine with some net-decking but I get mad when people with no skill show up at FNM and other more casual tournaments and think they are the best just because they have the "Top Tier Decks".
The type of net decking I don't like is when people go out and just find the world cup decks and replicate them, I don't have a problem with people looking at other people's deck designs and then trying to build around that idea, that takes thought and some knowledge of the game (sometimes even more than deck building). The whole "switch a few cards around" thing, I meant when people go "oh, this isn't a net-deck, the world pro deck runs two {Sphinx's Revelation}s, I run three" and other such nonsense, as long as you have put actual thought into reworking the deck, I would no longer consider it a net-deck. When I was saying I hate net-decking and when you net-deck it isn't a win, I wasn't talking about at tournaments I was talking about more casual play, like I said earlier sometimes net-decking is necessary at more competitive tournaments. That being said I still think that home-brewing is the best way to make a deck. It allows you to express your creativity and I look at deck building as a puzzle that begs to be solved.
Lastly, people who take FNM too seriously. (IMO) FNM is supposed to be a fun place where people can show up, get into Magic, have fun playing Magic and learn about the game through experience. It should be a fun and casual place where people can go who are trying to get into Magic, but people who only use top tier Net-decks at FNM are actually discouraging the growth of the Magic community. Trust me, I know what I am talking about here. Me and my friends play standard decks casually every day at school during lunch and have actually started a club that meets weekly (and got an adviser and everything), they love the game but they know that if they go to FNM, there is a good chance they will just be crushed by some jerk who thinks he is the best in the world because he is running the best deck in the world. If you are only going to win, please go to bigger tournaments, if FNM were intended to be hard-core tournaments the admission would be higher (at my LGS it's $5 and you get a pack).
I hope that this cleared things up and I think that most of the opinions expressed here can be agreed upon by both the pro- and con-net-decking crouds.
It takes skills to pilot the deck a hard expensive control or midrange is harder to pilot than a cheap aggro, so you should be winning if the people are not that good.:)
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 09, 2013, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 09, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
Sorry I had a hissy fit yesterday, I was pissed off at some other people and just didn't want to deal with anything. I apologize, it was immature and I'll try not to do it again. I am also sorry if people felt I was bashing them, I am fine with some net-decking but I get mad when people with no skill show up at FNM and other more casual tournaments and think they are the best just because they have the "Top Tier Decks".
The type of net decking I don't like is when people go out and just find the world cup decks and replicate them, I don't have a problem with people looking at other people's deck designs and then trying to build around that idea, that takes thought and some knowledge of the game (sometimes even more than deck building). The whole "switch a few cards around" thing, I meant when people go "oh, this isn't a net-deck, the world pro deck runs two {Sphinx's Revelation}s, I run three" and other such nonsense, as long as you have put actual thought into reworking the deck, I would no longer consider it a net-deck. When I was saying I hate net-decking and when you net-deck it isn't a win, I wasn't talking about at tournaments I was talking about more casual play, like I said earlier sometimes net-decking is necessary at more competitive tournaments. That being said I still think that home-brewing is the best way to make a deck. It allows you to express your creativity and I look at deck building as a puzzle that begs to be solved.
Lastly, people who take FNM too seriously. (IMO) FNM is supposed to be a fun place where people can show up, get into Magic, have fun playing Magic and learn about the game through experience. It should be a fun and casual place where people can go who are trying to get into Magic, but people who only use top tier Net-decks at FNM are actually discouraging the growth of the Magic community. Trust me, I know what I am talking about here. Me and my friends play standard decks casually every day at school during lunch and have actually started a club that meets weekly (and got an adviser and everything), they love the game but they know that if they go to FNM, there is a good chance they will just be crushed by some jerk who thinks he is the best in the world because he is running the best deck in the world. If you are only going to win, please go to bigger tournaments, if FNM were intended to be hard-core tournaments the admission would be higher (at my LGS it's $5 and you get a pack).
I hope that this cleared things up and I think that most of the opinions expressed here can be agreed upon by both the pro- and con-net-decking crouds.
It takes skills to pilot the deck a hard expensive control or midrange is harder to pilot than a cheap aggro, so you should be winning if the people are not that good.:)
I never said that people who net-deck have no skill, I said I hate when people with no skill net-deck and act like they are the best. Also I don't just play aggro, I play a try to play new deck every week at FNM because it keeps things fresh and fun. And FYI the particular person I am think of who plays a top-tier net-deck but has very little skill, I haven't lost to yet. ;) It also takes more skill to design a successful and then play it well than to just 'pilot' it.
If you think about it, no matter what you have... Someone, somewhere has the exact same decklist. It's not like what you have is 100% original wether you went on the internet or not.
In essense, we're all net deckers :-)
I'll just leave this here for everyone to think about:
"I am a part of all that I have met; yet all experience is an arch where through gleams that untravelled world, whose margin fades for ever and for ever when I move."
Quote from: Vampyvyrus on August 08, 2013, 11:44:44 PM
Aren't most net decks originally home brewed? I mean if you think about it, someone had to come up with the idea before it hits the Internet. This is what I consider a challenge...I want to make the next net deck before it hits the net. Whenever I make a solid deck ill take it to my lgs and wreck face...a week or two later ill see the my deck or one similar to it bc it worked and took 1st. It's the same thing as net decking essentially and I don't really look down on it. Everyone's used combos and synergies that someone else concocted. It's all the same even tho its on a smaller scale. Correct?
I was wondering when someone would point out that it takes a home brew to make a net deck. If you look it takes a rogue deck to create a winning deck that will be copied, but if anyone else remembers before there were sites to pull decks off wizards themselves used to print duel decks for the top two players. So in a way, both are valid, rogue decks create net decks and wizards has pushed copied way before net decking was a thing.
Quote from: Slenderbro on August 09, 2013, 11:25:22 PM
If you think about it, no matter what you have... Someone, somewhere has the exact same decklist. It's not like what you have is 100% original wether you went on the internet or not.
In essense, we're all net deckers :-)
Careful bro. I said a variant of the same thing and got hit for neg 3 karma lol
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 09, 2013, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 09, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
Sorry I had a hissy fit yesterday, I was pissed off at some other people and just didn't want to deal with anything. I apologize, it was immature and I'll try not to do it again. I am also sorry if people felt I was bashing them, I am fine with some net-decking but I get mad when people with no skill show up at FNM and other more casual tournaments and think they are the best just because they have the "Top Tier Decks".
The type of net decking I don't like is when people go out and just find the world cup decks and replicate them, I don't have a problem with people looking at other people's deck designs and then trying to build around that idea, that takes thought and some knowledge of the game (sometimes even more than deck building). The whole "switch a few cards around" thing, I meant when people go "oh, this isn't a net-deck, the world pro deck runs two {Sphinx's Revelation}s, I run three" and other such nonsense, as long as you have put actual thought into reworking the deck, I would no longer consider it a net-deck. When I was saying I hate net-decking and when you net-deck it isn't a win, I wasn't talking about at tournaments I was talking about more casual play, like I said earlier sometimes net-decking is necessary at more competitive tournaments. That being said I still think that home-brewing is the best way to make a deck. It allows you to express your creativity and I look at deck building as a puzzle that begs to be solved.
Lastly, people who take FNM too seriously. (IMO) FNM is supposed to be a fun place where people can show up, get into Magic, have fun playing Magic and learn about the game through experience. It should be a fun and casual place where people can go who are trying to get into Magic, but people who only use top tier Net-decks at FNM are actually discouraging the growth of the Magic community. Trust me, I know what I am talking about here. Me and my friends play standard decks casually every day at school during lunch and have actually started a club that meets weekly (and got an adviser and everything), they love the game but they know that if they go to FNM, there is a good chance they will just be crushed by some jerk who thinks he is the best in the world because he is running the best deck in the world. If you are only going to win, please go to bigger tournaments, if FNM were intended to be hard-core tournaments the admission would be higher (at my LGS it's $5 and you get a pack).
I hope that this cleared things up and I think that most of the opinions expressed here can be agreed upon by both the pro- and con-net-decking crouds.
It takes skills to pilot the deck a hard expensive control or midrange is harder to pilot than a aggro, so you should be winning if the people are not that good.:)
People are
Such karma trolls i get neg karma for saying it takes skill to pilot a deck.. Your supposed to give neg when someone is rude.
Ok I'm done with this convo...I've nvr recieved neg karma before posting my thoughts in this thread...I wasn't rude and I didnt bash anyone yet the neg karma keeps rolling in. Time for me to move on.
I got hit for 2 neg karma on this OP by the same guy two days in a row. He needs to move on, lol. Anyway don't let karma pings stop you from speaking your mind. I still find it strange that people get so worked up over this subject. Meh.
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 10, 2013, 11:26:39 AM
I got hit for 2 neg karma on this OP by the same guy two days in a row. He needs to move on, lol. Anyway don't let karma pings stop you from speaking your mind. I still find it strange that people get so worked up over this subject. Meh.
Sad part is, I was kind of a neutral party. I don't net deck but I don't hate people for it. I'm not going to say they don't deserve the win when they win. Btw how do you know who pinged your karma? I know I've accidently hit people with neg karma before. I'm unsure if you can remove it so I just put positive karma back on the same post lol
Quote from: Vampyvyrus on August 10, 2013, 11:35:08 AM
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 10, 2013, 11:26:39 AM
I got hit for 2 neg karma on this OP by the same guy two days in a row. He needs to move on, lol. Anyway don't let karma pings stop you from speaking your mind. I still find it strange that people get so worked up over this subject. Meh.
Sad part is, I was kind of a neutral party. I don't net deck but I don't hate people for it. I'm not going to say they don't deserve the win when they win. Btw how do you know who pinged your karma? I know I've accidently hit people with neg karma before. I'm unsure if you can remove it so I just put positive karma back on the same post lol
That's part of our special mod powers! There's actually TWO people that are pinging people for their opinions, and they're not even adding value to the conversation to boot.
I wish I could see who I've negatived bc I'm pretty sure there's been a few times that I did it on accident and didnt really mean too...iPhone is a little small for my liking sometimes mixed with lag=bad news bears.
Am I the only one whos meta is crowded with netdecks so I look at the netdecks so I can know what to expect and fight each week?
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on August 10, 2013, 02:15:43 PM
Am I the only one whos meta is crowded with netdecks so I look at the netdecks so I can know what to expect and fight each week?
That's the downside to net decks. Everyone knows what to expect for the most part.
Quote from: Moneekahh on August 10, 2013, 11:26:39 AM
I got hit for 2 neg karma on this OP by the same guy two days in a row. He needs to move on, lol. Anyway don't let karma pings stop you from speaking your mind. I still find it strange that people get so worked up over this subject. Meh.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say the kid that pinged you has never played anything except winning net decks....js
People DO get really worked up over this topic and that blows my mind. I'm pretty sure I said it in my previous post but the Internet has always been used as a resource and its definitely not going away. Back before the whole Internet phenomenon, people would swap deck ideas with friends or other ppl they'd meet at tourneys or what have you. Why don't people say that THAT is as 'bad' as net decking? Net decking is just the search for ideas on a much broader scale and personally I have nothing against people that do.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 10, 2013, 10:20:45 PM
People DO get really worked up over this topic and that blows my mind. I'm pretty sure I said it in my previous post but the Internet has always been used as a resource and its definitely not going away. Back before the whole Internet phenomenon, people would swap deck ideas with friends or other ppl they'd meet at tourneys or what have you. Why don't people say that THAT is as 'bad' as net decking? Net decking is just the search for ideas on a much broader scale and personally I have nothing against people that do.
Me either, hell i net deck. But i always tweak it for my personal playstyle.
How would anyone ever get any better if they dont have the option to see what other people play?
Quote from: Slenderbro on August 10, 2013, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 10, 2013, 10:20:45 PM
People DO get really worked up over this topic and that blows my mind. I'm pretty sure I said it in my previous post but the Internet has always been used as a resource and its definitely not going away. Back before the whole Internet phenomenon, people would swap deck ideas with friends or other ppl they'd meet at tourneys or what have you. Why don't people say that THAT is as 'bad' as net decking? Net decking is just the search for ideas on a much broader scale and personally I have nothing against people that do.
Me either, hell i net deck. But i always tweak it for my personal playstyle.
How would anyone ever get any better if they dont have the option to see what other people play?
Exactly! Ill net deck as well, (ill prob get pinged for saying that lol) but never will copy it to a 'T', like you said, ill tweak it in areas that I think it can be improved and adapt it to my playstyle/metagame. But also lots of my decks are home brewed as well
I got pinged on it lol, but whatever. It's the truth
Quote from: Slenderbro on August 10, 2013, 10:59:18 PM
I got pinged on it lol, but whatever. It's the truth
nope +1 you stated your opinion and it was not rude, you did not deserve that do +1.
Yea, someone is going back to my previous posts and pinging me down too. Lol.
People just get so mad. Oh well.
Quote from: Mothaelon on August 10, 2013, 11:41:24 PM
Yea, someone is going back to my previous posts and pinging me down too. Lol.
People just get so mad. Oh well.
+1
My new job to myself is to restore karma which is unrightfully taken.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 10, 2013, 11:42:23 PM
Quote from: Mothaelon on August 10, 2013, 11:41:24 PM
Yea, someone is going back to my previous posts and pinging me down too. Lol.
People just get so mad. Oh well.
+1
Thanks, you didn't have to though. I mean, even if I'm at -60 karma and everyone Hates me, still gonna speak my mind. Lol.
Quote from: Mothaelon on August 10, 2013, 11:45:03 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 10, 2013, 11:42:23 PM
Quote from: Mothaelon on August 10, 2013, 11:41:24 PM
Yea, someone is going back to my previous posts and pinging me down too. Lol.
People just get so mad. Oh well.
+1
Thanks, you didn't have to though. I mean, even if I'm at -60 karma and everyone Hates me, still gonna speak my mind. Lol.
👍
I'm still gettin pinged on this subject lol. Some people are too sensitive, can't even handle other people's opinions.
I rarely join the fray in discussion because I'm to busy living in trade thread land.
So I'll start by noting I played yugioh competitively for around 8 years, at a nationals competitive level. Never incredibly high placed, but that's irrelevant to this conversation. So being that the level of netdecking there was there to when I came into mtg and saw the same thing, I had already been exposed to the concept.
See heres the thing about magic, mistakes cost you horribly. Sure you can netdeck and do well to some degree, but the better player 90% of the time is going to win, that and the games will still be relatively interesting to watch even if its a mirror.
See magic doesn't really have what you would call an "auto pilot" deck. That's what yugioh has reverted to. Decks that literally need no thought to win with. And even though they ban the yugioh "power 9" they come out with another slew of retarded cards to abuse and develop single minded meta.
So that's whats wrong with yugioh. Don't get me wrong, I can't really say I think net decking is right. Personally I choose not to, because my mind is constantly on magic my decks how I can improve what can I do different and etc. And if I were to use someone else's deck its like I would just be standing on someone else's shoulders. When I make a change to my deck and it works, the victory is allll mine. I know u/b infect was slightly popular, and I know that I wasn't the only one in standard runnning it. But I'll te. You what, my brew started with me when scars came out, I fiddled with mono b/ and g/b but at the end of the day I had my baby down to a science, and with a positive winning ratio I felt like an awesome underdog in the meta.
Okay sorry to keep going on, but that being said I think net decking is necessary to an extent.I appreciate that standard has such a diverse and competitive metagame. I think in part its thanks to netdecking, a lot of netdeckers are creative because they take good ideas and improve upon them. Yugioh isnt about creativity its about mandatory combos or bust.
I also appreciate the ability to build my deck then check for the top 10-15 decks winning big tournaments in my colors just to see what it is theyre doing and what I can learn from a different perspective to my play style.
In closing, ultimately net decking in magic is more beneficial than harmful to the game, at least in my experiance.
Because who else hates losing to it, goes home and scours the format for a winning solution. Therefore creating the next level of netddeck.
As opposed to if you can't beat em, join em.
Net decking just takes away so much fun, even for yourself. Yes it's fun to win but you're winning with someone else's deck so where's the pride in that? Researching different cards has become my new fun thing to do. I keep finding new Legendary Creatures and trying to think of ways to work them as a commander and what I would put in the deck. I found a legend named {Johan} and my name is Jon so I thought it was cool and now I have an awesome deck based around a legend with a name similar to mine. Long story short, be creative, try to use your own ideas, and play to have fun, don't net deck just to win. If you take time and play your deck a lot and learn different cards and how they can work, any deck can be a winner.
Whenever I'm building a deck, I remember the flavour text on {chance encounter}. And it's true!
I don't know anyone that netdecks for commander and I'm so glad for that, commander is the land of homebrews!
Lol, home brews and then there's ZUR. I've played against people running Zur that don't even know how their own deck works. Translation = net decking.
Not even our beloved EDH is safe from net decking.
If im just going to like a FNM im not going to be boring and net deck im going to make a hilarious deck and have fun with it and let my opponent have fun I play maze's end in standard because its hilarious and I dont want to shell out over 200 dollars for a deck that will only last a year I spent like 80 bucks on my deck and im more happy with it than anything else. Now in Modern I do net decl because I play in a lot of more competitive enviroments I built reid duke's G/W aura deck he came in 2nd with at worlds because it wins and I dont want to waste money on competitive tournements playing a "fun" deck. I love brewing I brew all the time for standard but eternal formats lets leave that too the pros to make our deck
Net decking isn't neccesarily a bad thing, what wins at FNM is usually more of the deck than the strategy but in top tournements if you dont run a good deck then you lose and the winner is usually the best player strategy wise, dont say your good because you win fnm with jund midrange but if you beat all the other people running the same deck as you then you are good at the game. Its fun to make up good decks and it can be effective, the margine between the best and the worst isn't as big as you think. Homebrew decks can win and net decking is also a weakness to your opponent because you know exactly what to expect and can build your deck around that. Homebrew decks can win and you can build a good one to win with but it's just your decision and net decks arent going to just go away so build your deck around them.
Wow. Many opinions stated as fact and I am jumping in here on page 8 it looks like to throw my two UU 'counterspell' into the fray...
Magic is many things to many people, so like it or not, some people will play it (according to another person) "the wrong way".
This is true for every aspect of the game, from deck building to play style.
Decide what it is that you like about magic, then do it.
Decide what you don't like, and don't.
Come to the realization that everyone who plays has their own opinions and beliefs. (This is a good thing, I promise)
Play magic with like minded people... Otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure ... Whether it be getting kicked from a playgroup ... Or losing at FNM... Because each player has different ideas about what the game 'should be'... And what exactly a failure is.
Magic is a game. A game that can be played many different ways, for many different reasons. That my friends, is why magic is amazing. :)
Quote from: Arzair on August 16, 2013, 03:03:07 AM
Wow. Many opinions stated as fact and I am jumping in here on page 8 it looks like to throw my two UU 'counterspell' into the fray...
Magic is many things to many people, so like it or not, some people will play it (according to another person) "the wrong way".
This is true for every aspect of the game, from deck building to play style.
Decide what it is that you like about magic, then do it.
Decide what you don't like, and don't.
Come to the realization that everyone who plays has their own opinions and beliefs. (This is a good thing, I promise)
Play magic with like minded people... Otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure ... Whether it be getting kicked from a playgroup ... Or losing at FNM... Because each player has different ideas about what the game 'should be'... And what exactly a failure is.
Magic is a game. A game that can be played many different ways, for many different reasons. That my friends, is why magic is amazing. :)
+1 for being a GENIUS
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on August 15, 2013, 08:19:49 AM
Whenever I'm building a deck, I remember the flavour text on {chance encounter}. And it's true!
i remember finding a combo on YouTube were you had to flip 256 coins. And now I want to build a deck around it after seeing this card
What was the combo??????? That sounds soooooooo awesome
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dpaFFlEfOL8
Watch that. It's on there