Did y'all see that {Trade Secrets} got banned and that {Staff of Domination} got unbanned.
Say what? I'm going to be super pissed if trade secrets got banned. Off to check.
Edit: what the hell. This is a terrible decision. I could care less about the staff being unbanned, but {Trade Secrets} is one of the most fun cards in the format. Banning it because a few people were being stupid with it and missing the point of EDH in general is really dumb. They might as well ban Mentos because a few people put them diet coke and ruined the carpet.
Quote from: Gorzo on April 22, 2013, 04:48:43 PM
Say what? I'm going to be super pissed if trade secrets got banned. Off to check.
Edit: what the hell. This is a terrible decision. I could care less about the staff being unbanned, but {Trade Secrets} is one of the most fun cards in the format. Banning it because a few people were being stupid with it and missing the point of EDH in general is really dumb. They might as well ban Mentos because a few people put them diet coke and ruined the carpet.
I can't agree more. Although I don't play with {Trade Secrets} myself 3 ppl in my play group do and it's always fun. We don't abuse the card. I liked that card in a big game. And as for {Staff of Domination} the only thing I want to try is infinite mana in mono{B}.
This is a sad day :( Trade Secrets is one of my favorite EDH cards of all time. I don't think I have any reason to play blue anymore. I can get my card draw from black.
Quote from: Gorzo on April 22, 2013, 05:05:16 PM
This is a sad day :( Trade Secrets is one of my favorite EDH cards of all time. I don't think I have any reason to play blue anymore. I can get my card draw from black.
Well there's still {Consecrated Sphinx} and a few others in blue that can draw you cards, but I understand your anger. My friends feel the same way.
Why did they do this? They unban a notorious infinite combo engine, and then ban a really fun draw spell? Great, now even the ban list for EDH is going down a dark path.
Quote from: Keyeto on April 22, 2013, 05:19:59 PM
Why did they do this? They unban a notorious infinite combo engine, and then ban a really fun draw spell? Great, now even the ban list for EDH is going down a dark path.
Talk about it :(
What I wanted them to ban was {Sorin Markov} and/or {Master of Cruelties}. Maybe ban as commander {Zur the Enchanter} and/or {Kaalia of the Vast}.
Do you think the banning of trade secrets has anything to do with the release of {Notion Thief}?
Quote from: Rasser on April 22, 2013, 06:18:01 PM
Do you think the banning of trade secrets has anything to do with the release of {Notion Thief}?
It's possible, but there are much more evil ways to exploit {Notion Thief} for card draw. They should ban the thief before {Trade Secrets}; he turns cards like {Reforge the Soul} into "You opponent has no hand, draw 14." Trade Secrets was just a fun card to play. Surprising they banned such a popular and liked card.
Quote from: Rasser on April 22, 2013, 06:18:01 PM
Do you think the banning of trade secrets has anything to do with the release of {Notion Thief}?
I was just about to post this EXACT thing!!!
Quote from: Rasser on April 22, 2013, 06:18:01 PM
Do you think the banning of trade secrets has anything to do with the release of {Notion Thief}?
I don't think so, because {Master of Cruelties} was left untouched and that's more degenerate then {Trade Secrets} ever was.
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on April 22, 2013, 06:17:24 PM
What I wanted them to ban was {Sorin Markov} and/or {Master of Cruelties}. Maybe ban as commander {Zur the Enchanter} and/or {Kaalia of the Vast}.
They would ban {Zur the Enchanter}, but I don't think they would ever ban {Kaalia of the Vast} because they printed her in the commander set, if they did ban her it wouldn't be for a few years I suppose!
Mtgcommander.net has nothing to do with commander decks being printed, and mtgcommander is the closest thing to an authority on this casual format
"{Trade Secrets} is much like {Limited Resources} in that has some issues in a multiplayer environment. It isn't a problem when one player draws four cards and another draws eight. Trade Secrets is a problem when both players decide to draw 80 cards and effectively turn a four-player game into a two-player game. It just doesn't add enough to the format to justify the games that it single-handedly ruins."
First - has {Trade Secrets} ever been used for this purpose? And the nerve to liken it to {Limited Resources}? I only know 1 person who plays {Trade Secrets} - me. So what if 2 players draw their decks until they find {Reliquary Tower}? A lot of decks do crazy broken things.
Second - as Wackaman9001 has pointed out, MTG Commander.com is not affiliated with Wizards of the Coast. And they even printed {Trade Secrets} in the "Political Puppets" deck.
Also, {Consecrated Sphinx} getting banned too? 2 players with that out draw an awful lot of cards. How about {Sylvan Primordial} aka Primeval Titan redux?
I don't think I've ever seen {Trade Secrets} used in such a fashion. It's been played in almost every multiplayer EDH game I've played, and its never been that obnoxious. If it ever got that out of hand, I can guarantee some {Underworld Dreams} would be thrown in to prevent it.
If you want to ban unfair card advantage, you're looking at a long list, starting with the already mentioned {Consecrated Sphinx} and {Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur}. I run both in my reanimator deck, and let me tell you, they hardly cause a problem. They get targetted so fast, they hardly have a chance to do anything.
And that's what irritates me about this banning. Up until now, I could understand all the cards and why they were banned. But this? If you want to get rid of unfun gaming environments, {Zur the Enchanter} is way above {Trade Secrets}. He turns four player games into "oh god, kill Zur or we lose" games. Sheesh.
Where did you see the list update?
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 22, 2013, 08:26:50 PM
Mtgcommander.net has nothing to do with commander decks being printed, and mtgcommander is the closest thing to an authority on this casual format
Oh my bad! Thanks for letting me know though:)
Quote from: Keyeto on April 22, 2013, 05:19:59 PM
Why did they do this? They unban a notorious infinite combo engine, and then ban a really fun draw spell? Great, now even the ban list for EDH is going down a dark path.
My thought exactly... {Staff of Domination}..really??
Just curious, but how do you abuse {Trade Secrets}?? I always found it fun.
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on April 23, 2013, 12:34:38 AM
Quote from: Keyeto on April 22, 2013, 05:19:59 PM
Why did they do this? They unban a notorious infinite combo engine, and then ban a really fun draw spell? Great, now even the ban list for EDH is going down a dark path.
My thought exactly... {Staff of Domination}..really??
Just curious, but how do you abuse {Trade Secrets}?? I always found it fun.
It's not easy to, but possible I suppose. It's more abusable by the opponent, since they control the draw. If they have {Laboratory Maniac}, {Psychosis Crawler}, or {Underworld Dreams} they could pretty easily kill you. That's really based on the opponent though, it's not really something you can abuse yourself that easily. I think this was a poor call, and honestly, my playgroup is probably going to ignore it.
Edit: Actually, underworld dreams wouldn't do much, since you could choose to draw nothing. This ban is odd...
A very odd ban and unban. You get rid of a card that could potentially be abused, for a card that has a history of being abused for combos?? I don't get it.
Not to mention you give one of the most powerful generals(Sharuum) another powerful card. I have played {trade secrets} in many games that have 3+ players and I never heard anyone complain. Again it is one of the better political cards available.
Okay WTF?
Quote from: Moneekahh on April 23, 2013, 01:31:22 AM
Okay WTF?
Lol my exact reaction when Chris first posted this. I'm so glad I'm not alone on how I feel about this ban, no one I've talked to so far thinks this banning makes any sense.
I'm thinking its a rumor, seems like a terrible ban all around. Last ban we saw mixed reactions, with {primeval Titan} being seen as a powerhouse and {worldfire} being utterly broken in the format. This time, nobody sees {trade secrets} as a threat to their playstyle, it makes a fun multiplayer game less about interactions with other players, and gives the right decks basically a win as soon as they play their {staff of domination}. If this is for some terrible reason the truth, I will either dismantle all my edh decks in disgust or find people to ignore the new list.
Tl;dr: I'm going to pretend this never happened
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on April 22, 2013, 06:17:24 PM
What I wanted them to ban was {Sorin Markov} and/or {Master of Cruelties}. Maybe ban as commander {Zur the Enchanter} and/or {Kaalia of the Vast}.
Doubt Kaalia would get banned, they printed her especially for this format, and even reprinted her in Commander's Arsenal. Pretty sure she's here to stay.
Quote from: Moneekahh on April 23, 2013, 02:31:59 AM
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on April 22, 2013, 06:17:24 PM
What I wanted them to ban was {Sorin Markov} and/or {Master of Cruelties}. Maybe ban as commander {Zur the Enchanter} and/or {Kaalia of the Vast}.
Doubt Kaalia would get banned, they printed her especially for this format, and even reprinted her in Commander's Arsenal. Pretty sure she's here to stay.
I just want her banned as commander not from EDH entirely. The same goes for Zur.
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on April 23, 2013, 08:24:51 AM
Quote from: Moneekahh on April 23, 2013, 02:31:59 AM
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on April 22, 2013, 06:17:24 PM
What I wanted them to ban was {Sorin Markov} and/or {Master of Cruelties}. Maybe ban as commander {Zur the Enchanter} and/or {Kaalia of the Vast}.
Doubt Kaalia would get banned, they printed her especially for this format, and even reprinted her in Commander's Arsenal. Pretty sure she's here to stay.
I just want her banned as commander not from EDH entirely. The same goes for Zur.
I disagree completely with banning kaalia, one that should be banned is thrax
{Thraximundar}? He's fine. Sure he's powerful, but his mana cost is so heavy that players can have have answers ready for him by the time he's cast. Zur and Kaalia are both much faster to get out, making the harder to deal with - especially Zur who immediately tutors shroud enchantments.
I could see Zur getting the no-commander ban. I don't see it happening to Kaalia. And I see no reason to ban Thrax.
They should just ban {Kaalia of the Vast} because she practically makes the deck for you. It's boring. Oh cool, protection package and Angels, Demons and Dragons that do thing when they EtB? What a blast.
It's true, the only way to win against kaalia is to outpace Her or something like {nevermore} her away
Begrudgingly updated the official sticky. I died a little inside doing it.
Mtgcommander still lists the new bans as prime time and worldfire, not the new stuff
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 23, 2013, 07:35:17 PM
Mtgcommander still lists the new bans as prime time and worldfire, not the new stuff
They updated it today. It's official.
I stand corrected... :( why kill a political card that encourages communication and make it so that people can instawin that much easier?
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 23, 2013, 07:43:38 PM
I stand corrected... :( why kill a political card that encourages communication and make it so that people can instawin that much easier?
I wish I could answer you. :( I am deeply saddened by the loss of Trade Secrets, it is one of my favorite cards. It's been nothing but fun times for my friends and me.
Quote from: Gorzo on April 23, 2013, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 23, 2013, 07:43:38 PM
I stand corrected... :( why kill a political card that encourages communication and make it so that people can instawin that much easier?
I wish I could answer you. :( I am deeply saddened by the loss of Trade Secrets, it is one of my favorite cards. It's been nothing but fun times for my friends and me.
I don't know why they would let staff back in, but I play on using it; more for control rather then combo. I would like trade secrets to still be in, and I still don't understand their reasoning for both cards: secrets- takes away form multiplayer games and makes it more like a 1v1; and staff: there are a lot of 2 card combos why not add an other big combo piece to do degenerate things with.
Quote from: Gorzo on April 22, 2013, 04:48:43 PM
Say what? I'm going to be super pissed if trade secrets got banned. Off to check.
Edit: what the hell. This is a terrible decision. I could care less about the staff being unbanned, but {Trade Secrets} is one of the most fun cards in the format. Banning it because a few people were being stupid with it and missing the point of EDH in general is really dumb. They might as well ban Mentos because a few people put them diet coke and ruined the carpet.
lol quote of the day. I do hate the banning of Trade Secrets as well.
Grrrr, I just got the last card for my Niv deck in the mail today, and then I read this. Anyone care to guess which card I bought? Efff it it going in anyways damnit! I just won't be playing Niv down at Nerdy Stuff, he'll have to be a home deck. :(
Quote from: Erflowers on April 25, 2013, 05:22:01 AM
Grrrr, I just got the last card for my Niv deck in the mail today, and then I read this. Anyone care to guess which card I bought? Efff it it going in anyways damnit! I just won't be playing Niv down at Nerdy Stuff, he'll have to be a home deck. :(
That stinks man, I feel for ya. I'm right there with you, my friends and I are likely going to keep playing with it anyway. It's a casual format and we're playing for fun, so if we all disagree with it, why not, right?
We're such rebels.
Quote from: Gorzo on April 25, 2013, 06:01:37 AM
Quote from: Erflowers on April 25, 2013, 05:22:01 AM
Grrrr, I just got the last card for my Niv deck in the mail today, and then I read this. Anyone care to guess which card I bought? Efff it it going in anyways damnit! I just won't be playing Niv down at Nerdy Stuff, he'll have to be a home deck. :(
That stinks man, I feel for ya. I'm right there with you, my friends and I are likely going to keep playing with it anyway. It's a casual format and we're playing for fun, so if we all disagree with it, why not, right?
We're such rebels.
Same here, Gorzo. My playgroup thinks this ban is pretty dumb, and is choosing to ignore it. In fact, I'm so nice, I even let the one guy play {Gifts Ungiven} in his reanimator deck. I'm such a saint.
I'm really upset by this banning. The staff doesn't really bother me, but banning my secrets. My Firemind deck is just gonna run that much slower now. This is garbage. Next thing ya know they will just start banning all the wrath cards. BTW my play group not so forgiving. They stick to the bannings. So I will have to edit a few of my decks now.
Of all the cards they unban, they unban staff?! Jeez!!! Banning such a fun card as {Trade Secrets} is just salt in the wound. That's not even a broken card!
Hey what's up with {Pontiff of Blight}? Not cool!!! I was just gonna put that in😤
Quote from: The Learner on April 30, 2013, 09:11:27 PM
Hey what's up with {Pontiff of Blight}? Not cool!!! I was just gonna put that in😤
Wait, what?
My EDH tourement group are allowing it in our tourement as it is stupid to ban {Trade Secrets}
Quote from: izik99 on April 30, 2013, 09:53:30 PM
Quote from: The Learner on April 30, 2013, 09:11:27 PM
Hey what's up with {Pontiff of Blight}? Not cool!!! I was just gonna put that in😤
Wait, what?
Is it banned?
Quote from: Teysa karlov on April 30, 2013, 10:09:31 PM
My EDH tourement group are allowing it in our tourement as it is stupid to ban {Trade Secrets}
Yeah I can see that, I think my crew would dig it
It's red in my deck so assumed it was
Quote from: The Learner on April 30, 2013, 10:14:14 PM
It's red in my deck so assumed it was
It's because DGM cards aren't technically legal yet, since it hasn't been officially released.
Quote from: Keyeto on April 30, 2013, 10:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Learner on April 30, 2013, 10:14:14 PM
It's red in my deck so assumed it was
It's because DGM cards aren't technically legal yet, since it hasn't been officially released.
I see good to know