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Mill Deck. Advice ? 60 cards, 0 sideboard 6 {Swamp} 4 {Drowned Catacomb} 2 {Nephalia Drownyard} 6 {Island} 4 {Watery Grave} 22 lands 1 {Lazav, Dimir Mastermind} 3 {Consuming Aberration} 4 {Jace's Phantasm} 4 {Wight of Precinct Six} 12 creatures 2 {Jace, Memory Adept} 3 {Thought Scour} 3 {Increasing Confusion} 4 {Mind Sculpt} 4 {Think Twice} 3 {Mind Grind} 2 {Essence Harvest} 3 {Devour Flesh} 2 {Grisly Spectacle} 26 other spells Sideboard Notes: An attempt at a standard mill control type deck . I'm not sure which way to splash , red for the fling sac the big creatures for direct damage. Or blue for  more control.  This deck is unstable and in the middle . I gotta research what cards are in the other sets cause I know they re around . Any help guys ?

In Standard you have some options, I personally like all of the following cards, I just don't think mill is powerful enough for Standard right now, we need {Glimpse the Unthinkable}, then I'll throw down on a list, lol, but here you go:

{Jace's Phantasm}
{Mindshrieker}
{Shriekgeist}
{Selhoff Occultist}
{Undead Alchemist}
{Curse of the Bloody Tome}
{Thought Scour}
{Dream Twist}
{Increasing Confusion}
{Mind Sculpt}
{Mind Grind}
{Psychic Strike}

Also, {Nephalia Drownyard} is a must, at least as a 2 of.

I'd personally say stay {U}{B}, there's definitely potential here, I just like modern mill better.

Yeah that's a good list . The dying enchantment that hits them with power is good with a sac outlet or when it dies .

Quote from: Coheed015 on February 02, 2013, 08:56:01 PM
Yeah that's a good list . The dying enchantment that hits them with power is good with a sac outlet or when it dies .

Very true, also this list, is in addition to what is already in the deck, some of the cards I listed were already in and I just removed 'em, these are cards that can benefit what you've already built.

{mind grind}, I'd say {sands of delirium} over the nephalia drownyard, and {trepanation blade}. {Jace's phantasm} is a good one-drop for mill decks. You can also use {fog bank} to stall opponent's creatures. I'd drop the dimir guildmage personally. The dimir horror could be a good late game creature as well(can't think of its name).

Quote from: Spidey82 on February 03, 2013, 09:11:12 AM
{mind grind}, I'd say {sands of delirium} over the nephalia drownyard, and {trepanation blade}. {Jace's phantasm} is a good one-drop for mill decks. You can also use {fog bank} to stall opponent's creatures. I'd drop the dimir guildmage personally. The dimir horror could be a good late game creature as well(can't think of its name).

{Dinrova Horror}

And I'm thinking of keeping it more control but there's no way for me to keep fueling myself and keep digging . I would like to stay U/B . Well the Duskmantle with Jace is a good 10 direct combo hit , or Abberation with dying wish , than sac or kill it . Boom . Keep counter up for RIP cast ? Sb duress for it .

Why not use trepanation blade? You equip it to the invisible stalker and swing for an extra +1 minimum while decking them at the same time. I've used that combo since the Innistrad prerelease

Quote from: Spidey82 on February 03, 2013, 09:11:12 AM
{mind grind}, I'd say {sands of delirium} over the nephalia drownyard, and {trepanation blade}. {Jace's phantasm} is a good one-drop for mill decks. You can also use {fog bank} to stall opponent's creatures. I'd drop the dimir guildmage personally. The dimir horror could be a good late game creature as well(can't think of its name).

I think {Sands of Delirium} is terrible, unless you can get a lot of mana out, it's pretty worthless as far a mill spells go, and using it over Nephalia? Dude the Drownyard is a land, it can just chill out until you have excess mana, and when you topdeck you mill them as well as play your spells. Sure it technically does the same thing as Sands, but Sands is not a land, it's a card using up a slot that could be filled by something way more effective. Utility Lands are amazing.

My suggestion for mill would be tons and tons of control. You need to stall as long as possible. I'd even try a fog deck. {Supreme Verdict}, {Terminus}, {Thought Scour}, {Mind Sculpt}, {Jace, Architect of Thought}, {Safe Passage} and {Psychic Spiral} for recursion. Just play the long game.

Quote from: Dudecore on February 03, 2013, 02:59:09 PM
My suggestion for mill would be tons and tons of control. You need to stall as long as possible. I'd even try a fog deck. {Supreme Verdict}, {Terminus}, {Thought Scour}, {Mind Sculpt}, {Jace, Architect of Thought}, {Safe Passage} and {Psychic Spiral} for recursion. Just play the long game.

I think that might be the only viable option in Standard, the mill isn't powerful enough for a full on Mill-your-face-off. I like the defender mill idea the best, {Doorkeeper} and {Sands of Delirium} (I know I just flamed Sands, but in this deck, which is a completely different deck mind you, it's really good) just go infinite! I like the counter mill we have right now too, I think those should be a 4-of

Playing a long game can save up enough time to mill out with {Increasing Confusion}. Even use Jace's 2nd ability on yourself, then {Psychic Spiral} on their end step. Defenders is the more confusing, less consistent way to play a mill deck in Standard. Drawing cards, board sweeping and fogging is more versatile.

Updated the deck a bit for now still keeping it blue and black but I think I see it being an esper control type deck soon. I'll figure it out tomorrow once I get paid I can get any cards I want so , I'll want to pick and snatch up cards that I'll be needing .

The only creatures I would run is probably {Snapcaster Mage} and {Augur of Bolas}. Augur can get you what you need, when you need it, and Snappy can reuse it.

Quote from: Dudecore on February 03, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
The only creatures I would run is probably {Snapcaster Mage} and {Augur of Bolas}. Augur can get you what you need, when you need it, and Snappy can reuse it.

How would you deal with Sb hate such as ground seal and RIP?

Quote from: Coheed015 on February 03, 2013, 05:02:03 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on February 03, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
The only creatures I would run is probably {Snapcaster Mage} and {Augur of Bolas}. Augur can get you what you need, when you need it, and Snappy can reuse it.

How would you deal with Sb hate such as ground seal and RIP?

Same way control decks do it now. Just play enough copies of each spell, so you don't have to worry about it. Odds are they aren't sideboarding more then 2 of either, and they have to find it too. Probability is on your side, and you're drawing more cards to find more answers.

I'd drop {Trepanation Blade}. It's too slow, requires having creatures to attack. I'd finish the {Thought Scour} and consider {Think Twice}, 2 should be fine. Let yourself draw enough cards. Getting deeper into your deck is always most benefittial, the guy who sees the most amount of his cards has always got a better chance of winning.

Quote from: Dudecore on February 03, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
The only creatures I would run is probably {Snapcaster Mage} and {Augur of Bolas}. Augur can get you what you need, when you need it, and Snappy can reuse it.

Idk dude, {Jace's Phantasm} is pretty ridiculous

To put it into perspective, and explain "Card Advantage" if you don't understand it already, it's this.

Your opponent and you each have 60 card decks. You both are of the same skill level. You each draw 7 cards. Your library now contains 53 cards. Every turn you each draw a card on your draw step. If the game goes 9 rounds, you've each only seen 16 cards of your 60 card deck! That is nothing.

Now with card advantage, by drawing cards on their end step with {Thought Scour} and/or {Think Twice}, you're getting deeper then they can. Drawing more cards than your opponent, then using that advantage to play more cards and to advance your position faster than they can.

Quote from: Dudecore on February 03, 2013, 05:36:26 PM
To put it into perspective, and explain "Card Advantage" if you don't understand it already, it's this.

Your opponent and you each have 60 card decks. You both are of the same skill level. You each draw 7 cards. Your library now contains 53 cards. Every turn you each draw a card on your draw step. If the game goes 9 rounds, you've each only seen 16 cards of your 60 card deck! That is nothing.

Now with card advantage, by drawing cards on their end step with {Thought Scour} and/or {Think Twice}, you're getting deeper then they can. Drawing more cards than your opponent, then using that advantage to play more cards and to advance your position faster than they can.

I get what you mean . Hm... Alright I'll make the changes real quick . I have another list that focus more on the creatures as they come out . Once I figure this list out I'll save it and post the other list for a more aggressive controlly type mill deck . Just some ideas to help everyone out .

Bump

Quote from: Coheed015 on February 04, 2013, 12:21:38 AM
Bump

Still have no way to stop your face from getting beat. When you play Mill you make your opponents life total 53. You have to get rid of 53 of their cards ASAP. They play you as of you had 20 life.

{Mind Sculpt} is the equivilant to a 3 dmg (53 cards vs. 20 life), it is basically a {Searing Spear} for blue. You gotta be able to defend yourself a win long enough to deal 53 dmg.

I currently play mill in standard. But guess how many mill cards I run? Three.

2x {Jace, Memory Adept}
1x {Psychic Spiral}

Dudecore is right. Mill isn't good enough to go all out. There's a reason I run 33 spells and 3 mill spells. You have to stall. My deck is 2 colors: blue and white. But I for sure recomend drownyard. I am just too lazy to trade for dualies and drownyards.

The only creatures I run are {Snapcaster Mage}s. Use spells like {Unsummon} and {Peel From Reality} to get rid of early pressure, and make up for it late game with huge CA plays like {Supreme Verdict} and {Sphinx's Revelation}.

Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 04, 2013, 01:17:43 PM
I currently play mill in standard. But guess how many mill cards I run? Three.

2x {Jace, Memory Adept}
1x {Psychic Spiral}

Dudecore is right. Mill isn't good enough to go all out. There's a reason I run 33 spells and 3 mill spells. You have to stall. My deck is 2 colors: blue and white. But I for sure recomend drownyard. I am just too lazy to trade for dualies and drownyards.

The only creatures I run are {Snapcaster Mage}s. Use spells like {Unsummon} and {Peel From Reality} to get rid of early pressure, and make up for it late game with huge CA plays like {Supreme Verdict} and {Sphinx's Revelation}.

I'd like to see your list if it's possible ? That way I have a way to base off how I should be surviving . I believe control can be the only way to maintain a board state if youd like mill to be the main drill here .

My sideboard is Mill-tastic. http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=15098.msg128439

I basically:
-2 {Runechanter's Pike}
+2 Terminus
-4 {Restoration Angel}
+2 {Jace, Memory Adept}
+1 {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage}
+1 {Psychic Spiral}

And play Mill-Control. I haven't a had a chance to move {Nephalia Drownyard} into it

Quote from: Dudecore on February 04, 2013, 02:48:11 PM
My sideboard is Mill-tastic. http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=15098.msg128439

I basically:
-2 {Runechanter's Pike}
+2 Terminus
-4 {Restoration Angel}
+2 {Jace, Memory Adept}
+1 {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage}
+1 {Psychic Spiral}

And play Mill-Control. I haven't a had a chance to move {Nephalia Drownyard} into it

Is it like an esper control list ?

Yeah it's Esper Control that sideboards into Mill. It's very expensive to build, it's mostly just a representation of what a "mill" deck is currently. Anything else just doesn't get there.

I've seen someone using  {Mirror-Mad Phantasm} then creating a copy of it. Activate the copy's ability to mil your entire deck and  {Psychic Spiral}

Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 04, 2013, 05:41:28 PM
I've seen someone using  {Mirror-Mad Phantasm} then creating a copy of it. Activate the copy's ability to mil your entire deck and  {Psychic Spiral}

Why make
A copy of it and not
Just hit the ability?

Quote from: Coheed015 on February 04, 2013, 11:53:42 PM

Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 04, 2013, 05:41:28 PM
I've seen someone using  {Mirror-Mad Phantasm} then creating a copy of it. Activate the copy's ability to mil your entire deck and  {Psychic Spiral}

Why make
A copy of it and not
Just hit the ability?

My guess is that there is only one copy of  {Mirror-Mad Phantasm} so if shuffle the copy you can send your whole deck into gy.

Because you might only get 1 card before seeing it again.
When it's a token copy it's not actually back in there so you have 100% chance of flipping your whole deck over.

Quote from: Wally on February 05, 2013, 03:18:13 AM
Because you might only get 1 card before seeing it again.
When it's a token copy it's not actually back in there so you have 100% chance of flipping your whole deck over.

It's genius as long as you have a counter up ready and than make the oppenent draw with something and it's game ? How will you hunt down the 1 card , there a way to search for a specific card in these colors ?

You could {Diabolic Revelation} for a bunch, find {Cackling Counterpart} and {Mirror-Mad Phantasm}.

That is a whole bunch of mana though....

Quote from: Coheed015 on February 04, 2013, 02:37:59 PM

Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 04, 2013, 01:17:43 PM
I currently play mill in standard. But guess how many mill cards I run? Three.

2x {Jace, Memory Adept}
1x {Psychic Spiral}

Dudecore is right. Mill isn't good enough to go all out. There's a reason I run 33 spells and 3 mill spells. You have to stall. My deck is 2 colors: blue and white. But I for sure recomend drownyard. I am just too lazy to trade for dualies and drownyards.

The only creatures I run are {Snapcaster Mage}s. Use spells like {Unsummon} and {Peel From Reality} to get rid of early pressure, and make up for it late game with huge CA plays like {Supreme Verdict} and {Sphinx's Revelation}.

I'd like to see your list if it's possible ? That way I have a way to base off how I should be surviving . I believe control can be the only way to maintain a board state if youd like mill to be the main drill here .

Sure I will post my list later today, at probably around 1:00pm.