So, guy at FNM was playing "5 color {Battle of Wits}". 250 card deck. Going into the Top 8, we were discussing how he won EVERY match 2-0 with Wits. He was 5-0 for the night. I played him first round of top 8. After losing back to back games with Wits, I asked to look through his deck. I was already very suspicious after the 3rd round. He got very defensive right away. Now, I understand, he doesn't HAVE to show me his deck. So I went to the store owner before my opponent could give him the results, and asked him to ask for a deck check. I explained my theory to him. The store owner asked to look through the deck, and stopped counting after 60. He had 60+ of the Wits in his deck. Not only did he get banned from every entering another tournament at this store, he's banned from even being a customer.
Hahahah. So lame. He didnt even cheat in a cool way. (Not that I condone cheating.)
That's not cool at all he should be banned from playin in general like dci number reported and all
Lol that is terrible. The only time I've encountered a cheater was a few years back. My boyfriend and I were playing FNM at our LGS and I was done with my round so I went over to watch my boyfriends game, I was standing behind his opponent and the guy was blatantly drawing extra cards!! I called him out on it and told my bf to be more observant in the future.
I hate when people stand behind me when I'm playing. I always think they will have a tell to what I still have in my hand.
People cheat all the time. Pay attention to people who pile shuffle. You'll see them stacking the deck all the time. Some people don't even know they're doing it
Quote from: Dudecore on January 12, 2013, 02:03:24 PM
People cheat all the time. Pay attention to people who pile shuffle. You'll see them stacking the deck all the time. Some people don't even know they're doing it
Pile shuffle. Is that were you take the bottom half and put bits from the top ontop, untill you practically inverted half the deck?
Quote from: Dudecore on January 12, 2013, 02:03:24 PM
People cheat all the time. Pay attention to people who pile shuffle. You'll see them stacking the deck all the time. Some people don't even know they're doing it
Hey I pile shuffle Atleast twice every FNM just to get a good shuffle after rounds and such... Force of habit but it helps. I've cought guys going to mulliganthere hand and put like half there hand on top and the rest inside. Then do obvious shuffles so the top never changes around
http://fivewithflores.com/2009/05/how-to-cheat/
This is a good article to read to catch people cheating. It effectively shows how non-random pile shuffling is, and how easy it is to manipulate.
It is no great secret, but I'm certain you'll catch someone doing it.
Deck stacking is illegal, and it violates the spirit of the game. However, with $40,000 on the line at most of these tournaments, cheating is a way of life. Unfortunately you've gotta cheat to win, it's easier then being lucky or good.
Can someone provide a link on how to rifel shuffle please?
Quote from: Dudecore on January 12, 2013, 02:55:07 PM
http://fivewithflores.com/2009/05/how-to-cheat/
This is a good article to read to catch people cheating. It effectively shows how non-random pile shuffling is, and how easy it is to manipulate.
It is no great secret, but I'm certain you'll catch someone doing it.
Deck stacking is illegal, and it violates the spirit of the game. However, with $40,000 on the line at most of these tournaments, cheating is a way of life. Unfortunately you've gotta cheat to win, it's easier then being lucky or good.
Interesting....
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffling
Quote from: Dudecore on January 12, 2013, 02:55:07 PM
http://fivewithflores.com/2009/05/how-to-cheat/
This is a good article to read to catch people cheating. It effectively shows how non-random pile shuffling is, and how easy it is to manipulate.
It is no great secret, but I'm certain you'll catch someone doing it.
Deck stacking is illegal, and it violates the spirit of the game. However, with $40,000 on the line at most of these tournaments, cheating is a way of life. Unfortunately you've gotta cheat to win, it's easier then being lucky or good.
Great read, thanks Dudecore.
If we had iMtG Tournament with iMtG Law to run it, what would you consider a good punishment* for a particular type of crime?
*good punishment = logical
Quote from: Piotr on January 12, 2013, 06:14:34 PM
If we had iMtG Tournament with iMtG Law to run it, what would you consider a good punishment* for a particular type of crime?
*good punishment = logical
Cheat = get your fingers cut off so you can never play again! :D
All jokes aside, punishments would be very circumstantial based upon the type and severity of the crime.
Information is the best solution to these situations. More people understand how that particular cheat works. There are plenty others. Sleight of hand tricks and other stacked shuffles (besides the Double Nickel) are used.
It's best to arm yourself with that knowledge. If you're really good at it, no one will ever know. Some magicians play MtG. When lots of money is on the line it brings out the worst in people.
An appropriate punishment should be suspension. Plenty of well known cheaters have been ousted, then they go play poker or something else. There isn't much to stop anyone from doing it, $40,000 is worth the risk.
Quote from: Dudecore on January 12, 2013, 06:29:20 PM
Information is the best solution to these situations. More people understand how that particular cheat works. There are plenty others. Sleight of hand tricks and other stacked shuffles (besides the Double Nickel) are used.
It's best to arm yourself with that knowledge. If you're really good at it, no one will ever know. Some magicians play MtG. When lots of money is on the line it brings out the worst in people.
An appropriate punishment should be suspension. Plenty of well known cheaters have been ousted, then they go play poker or something else. There isn't much to stop anyone from doing it, $40,000 is worth the risk.
How do you suggest addressing these situations if you notice them? Call Judge and hope the Judge agrees with you? I would feel like a jerk if they weren't doing it intentionally but is there a penalty for "false" judge calls?
If he stopped going through the deck at 60 cards how did he know there was more than 60 battle of wits?
Quote from: Empathie on January 12, 2013, 06:33:09 PM
If he stopped going through the deck at 60 cards how did he know there was more than 60 battle of wits?
Doesn't matter, there can only be 4.
Just ask them to riffle shuffle 7 times. If you see them pile shuffling explain that it isn't sufficient for randomizing the deck. There is really no excuse for saying "no". I'd say most people just don't know, even Evan Erwin didn't and he's played forever. They just think they get good draws and hit their land drops.
Sleight of hand stuff is more difficult to track, but people have been busted before for doing it. Learn a few magician shuffles, magic tricks, deck stacking and float tricks.
Riffle duffle a couple times for your cut.
Quote from: Birdbrain on January 12, 2013, 04:02:35 PM
Can someone provide a link on how to rifel shuffle please?
You should never riffle shuffle magic cards 😦
Quote from: S717 on January 12, 2013, 10:55:08 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on January 12, 2013, 04:02:35 PM
Can someone provide a link on how to rifel shuffle please?
You should never riffle shuffle magic cards 😦
Hear hear.
I will never rifle shuffle my cards. Side shuffle no problem.
Quote from: Piotr on January 12, 2013, 06:14:34 PM
If we had iMtG Tournament with iMtG Law to run it, what would you consider a good punishment* for a particular type of crime?
*good punishment = logical
I think the cane should be used..
Quote from: Richardalcala on January 12, 2013, 11:11:57 PM
I will never rifle shuffle my cards. Side shuffle no problem.
Isn't riffle shuffling the same as side shuffling?
Also with sleves this is made easier.
No riffle shuffling is when you bend the cards and they make that horrible noise 😱
Quote from: Empathie on January 12, 2013, 06:33:09 PM
If he stopped going through the deck at 60 cards how did he know there was more than 60 battle of wits?
He stopped counting after the 60th {Battle of Wits}.
Riffle shuffling magic cards is fine, they're designed to be bent enough to shuffle that way. You're not folding them in half, and you can shuffle them by the corners.
Read about magic card construction and shuffling methods. There is a lot of misinformation out there, including and not limited to their durability.
My cousin would crucify you
Quote from: Dudecore on January 13, 2013, 12:03:32 PM
Riffle shuffling magic cards is fine, they're designed to be bent enough to shuffle that way. You're not folding them in half, and you can shuffle them by the corners.
Read about magic card construction and shuffling methods. There is a lot of misinformation out there, including and not limited to their durability.
Try that on someone else's legacy deck and you might just get stabbed. Durability or not... :/
Quote from: Wally on January 13, 2013, 08:24:38 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on January 13, 2013, 12:03:32 PM
Riffle shuffling magic cards is fine, they're designed to be bent enough to shuffle that way. You're not folding them in half, and you can shuffle them by the corners.
Read about magic card construction and shuffling methods. There is a lot of misinformation out there, including and not limited to their durability.
Try that on someone else's legacy deck and you might just get stabbed. Durability or not... :/
Well...that doesn't make them right. I riffle my legacy deck all the time, it is still perfect condition.
Riffle shuffling is not the only way you can shuffle properly and most people will not riffle shuffle decks with tons of money in them. Fact of life so you have to deal with that.
So I put 60 swamps in a sleeve and tried to riffle shuffle while I thought it did a good job it did bend the cards out or in depend on which way I shuffled the cards so I guess while pile shuffle is a waste I will just side shuffle a bunch be for each match.
Practice makes perfect!
Maybe he doesn't let people look over his shoulder. I know I don't.