I don't understand why sorin is so overrated. He is at about 65 dollars right now, and his color scheme fits with nothing from the current metagame, and it is not that difficult to kill
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 12:11:04 AM
I don't understand why sorin is so overrated. He is at about 65 dollars right now, and his color scheme fits with nothing from the current metagame, and it is not that difficult to kill
People are worried about "the next Jace", that's why. I mean, he's in the second set, all the other cards seem bad, and there's a third large set. Sound familiar?
Quote from: Prophylaxis on January 28, 2012, 12:12:14 AM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 12:11:04 AM
I don't understand why sorin is so overrated. He is at about 65 dollars right now, and his color scheme fits with nothing from the current metagame, and it is not that difficult to kill
People are worried about "the next Jace", that's why. I mean, he's in the second set, all the other cards seem bad, and there's a third large set. Sound familiar?
1. It does not have 4 abilities
2. It does not have a banned ablility
3. It can't remove threats
4. It does not give you card advantage
5. It does not go in the control decks
6. Its color scheme sucks
7. It only has 3 loyalty
8. It does not go in to any of the colors which his ability fulfills
9. We don't have another stoneforge mystic in this set
10. It is nothing compared to jace, the mindsculptor
Seriously. The set in which it is in has no effect on the quality of the card itself. Just because jace was in worldwake, doent mean it should be $65. Sorin, on the otherhand, accomplishes nothing compared to Jace. Every color has a way to deal with planeswalkers, so most times you pay 2BW to put a 1/1 lifelinker or to give all creatures +1/0. It is not comparable with jace, the mind sculptor at all.
Quote from: Prophylaxis on January 27, 2012, 09:12:55 AM
Quote from: Karrthus on January 27, 2012, 04:33:22 AM
Meta?
What kind of decks are your opponents playing?
Around here most people play net decks. You still see alot of solar flare, kessig ramp, township tokens, and RDW.
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 12:29:14 AM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on January 28, 2012, 12:12:14 AM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 12:11:04 AM
I don't understand why sorin is so overrated. He is at about 65 dollars right now, and his color scheme fits with nothing from the current metagame, and it is not that difficult to kill
People are worried about "the next Jace", that's why. I mean, he's in the second set, all the other cards seem bad, and there's a third large set. Sound familiar?
1. It does not have 4 abilities
2. It does not have a banned ablility
3. It can't remove threats
4. It does not give you card advantage
5. It does not go in the control decks
6. Its color scheme sucks
7. It only has 3 loyalty
8. It does not go in to any of the colors which his ability fulfills
9. We don't have another stoneforge mystic in this set
10. It is nothing compared to jace, the mindsculptor
Seriously. The set in which it is in has no effect on the quality of the card itself. Just because jace was in worldwake, doent mean it should be $65. Sorin, on the otherhand, accomplishes nothing compared to Jace. Every color has a way to deal with planeswalkers, so most times you pay 2BW to put a 1/1 lifelinker or to give all creatures +1/0. It is not comparable with jace, the mind sculptor at all.
Should I just say "B/W tokens is the real deal"?
Quote from: Prophylaxis on January 28, 2012, 12:49:59 AM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 12:29:14 AM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on January 28, 2012, 12:12:14 AM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 12:11:04 AM
I don't understand why sorin is so overrated. He is at about 65 dollars right now, and his color scheme fits with nothing from the current metagame, and it is not that difficult to kill
People are worried about "the next Jace", that's why. I mean, he's in the second set, all the other cards seem bad, and there's a third large set. Sound familiar?
1. It does not have 4 abilities
2. It does not have a banned ablility
3. It can't remove threats
4. It does not give you card advantage
5. It does not go in the control decks
6. Its color scheme sucks
7. It only has 3 loyalty
8. It does not go in to any of the colors which his ability fulfills
9. We don't have another stoneforge mystic in this set
10. It is nothing compared to jace, the mindsculptor
Seriously. The set in which it is in has no effect on the quality of the card itself. Just because jace was in worldwake, doent mean it should be $65. Sorin, on the otherhand, accomplishes nothing compared to Jace. Every color has a way to deal with planeswalkers, so most times you pay 2BW to put a 1/1 lifelinker or to give all creatures +1/0. It is not comparable with jace, the mind sculptor at all.
Should I just say "B/W tokens is the real deal"?
ðŸ' Yes, I think that about does it. Sorin may not be as game changing as Jace, but that doesn't mean he isn't as awesome. Personally, i think he's better coz he's not baaaaaroken!!! Winning with {Sorrin, Lord of Innistrad} wont feel as much of a hollow victory as winning with {Jace, the Mind Sculptor}.
Besides, those of us who play token gen and/or Esper colours are frothing for him!
Also, planeswalkers are always overhyped.
Esper tokens lack the one thing that all aggressive decks need: a stable mana base. Control decks and solarflare can pull it off because of their vast card selection and card advantage. When BWU tokens are played, you will be very likely color screwed.
Yes I agree that sorin has potential to be good, but it is in all the wrong playable card-base to run him smootly.
He does not compare at all with jace TMS and Liliana of the veil. He should not be above 20 by any means
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 01:34:41 AM
Yes I agree that sorin has potential to be good, but it is in all the wrong playable card-base to run him smootly.
He does not compare at all with jace TMS and Liliana of the veil. He should not be above 20 by any means
Just wait a few more months. If he finds a home then he'll stick to that price.
I think he is every bit equal to {Liliana of the Veil}. the new sorin has lots of potential. He's not as diverse as liliana, but he will be a great asset to token deck, or W/B deck for that matter. What needs to be looked at are the first 2 abilities, because most games with a planeswalker out aren't won by their big ability. Their won by the first 2 abilities.
Quote from: Karrthus on January 28, 2012, 05:02:17 AM
I think he is every bit equal to {Liliana of the Veil}. the new sorin has lots of potential. He's not as diverse as liliana, but he will be a great asset to token deck, or W/B deck for that matter. What needs to be looked at are the first 2 abilities, because most games with a planeswalker out aren't won by their big ability. Their won by the first 2 abilities.
Agreed. I have a deck with {Ajani, goldmane} and I don't even remember his big ability cuz I only use him for his second ability until he is all used up.
The problem about sorin's first and second abilities are not as good as people believe. Sorin's token spam first ability is not even as good as garruk, and you can't even use his second twice until you use the +1 first. The abilities are no better than the other planeswalkers we have. Liliana makes ppl discard and is a removal, Garruk tokenspams and is a removal, elspeth gains life and spams more tokens, Gideon is walking death on a stick and is a removal.
All these planeswalkers do a better job than sorin
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 01:11:59 PM
The problem about sorin's first and second abilities are not as good as people believe. Sorin's token spam first ability is not even as good as garruk, and you can't even use his second twice until you use the +1 first. The abilities are no better than the other planeswalkers we have. Liliana makes ppl discard and is a removal, Garruk tokenspams and is a removal, elspeth gains life and spams more tokens, Gideon is walking death on a stick and is a removal.
All these planeswalkers do a better job than sorin
First, which Garruk, {Garruk Wildspeaker} or the other one? The first Garruk makes vanilla 2/2s with no relevant type at a loss, not a gain. Sorin "tokenspams" for profit. They are a relevant creature type and they can gain you life.
I think you underestimate the value of an emblem, especially one that isn't an Ultimate. 2WB: for the rest of the game +1/+0 is respectable, particularly in an upcoming WB weenie/sac archetype I sense coming (Yes Spikepit, I'm calling it).
Sorin can win games singlehandedly. Not something all PWs can do. Plus he's has removal too!
Playability in Standard is not the only thing that defines a card's value. Sorin is oozing flavor, the second enemy-colored PW ever in a pair that hasnt had much love lately. Is he worth $50, I don't think so, but I will trade you Sorin for Garruk any day. ðŸ'°
This needs to be split. We've gotten WAY off topic.
Quote from: BlackJester on January 28, 2012, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 01:11:59 PM
The problem about sorin's first and second abilities are not as good as people believe. Sorin's token spam first ability is not even as good as garruk, and you can't even use his second twice until you use the +1 first. The abilities are no better than the other planeswalkers we have. Liliana makes ppl discard and is a removal, Garruk tokenspams and is a removal, elspeth gains life and spams more tokens, Gideon is walking death on a stick and is a removal.
All these planeswalkers do a better job than sorin
First, which Garruk, {Garruk Wildspeaker} or the other one? The first Garruk makes vanilla 2/2s with no relevant type at a loss, not a gain. Sorin "tokenspams" for profit. They are a relevant creature type and they can gain you life.
I think you underestimate the value of an emblem, especially one that isn't an Ultimate. 2WB: for the rest of the game +1/+0 is respectable, particularly in an upcoming WB weenie/sac archetype I sense coming (✨Yes Spikepit, I'm calling it✨).
Sorin can win games singlehandedly. Not something all PWs can do. Plus he's has removal too!
Playability in Standard is not the only thing that defines a card's value. Sorin is oozing flavor, the second enemy-colored PW ever in a pair that hasnt had much love lately. Is he worth $50, I don't think so, but I will trade you Sorin for Garruk any day. ðŸ'°
Hear hear.
✨: oh yeah, I can see it comin on the horizon too! Infact I already dubbed it 'Sac Hum' in another thread in a lame attempted to be a trend setter ... it wont take off ðŸ˜"
Quote from: Spikepit on January 28, 2012, 04:34:27 PM
✨: oh yeah, I can see it comin on the horizon too! Infact I already dubbed it 'Sac Hum' in another thread in a lame attempted to be a trend setter ... it wont take off ðŸ˜"
Ummm, be careful using the words "Sac" and "Hum" together... I'll let you think about that one. 😉
Quote from: BlackJester on January 28, 2012, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Spikepit on January 28, 2012, 04:34:27 PM
✨: oh yeah, I can see it comin on the horizon too! Infact I already dubbed it 'Sac Hum' in another thread in a lame attempted to be a trend setter ... it wont take off ðŸ˜"
Ummm, be careful using the words "Sac" and "Hum" together... I'll let you think about that one. 😉
😖 now I can't use that again. 😷
Quote from: BlackJester on January 28, 2012, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 01:11:59 PM
The problem about sorin's first and second abilities are not as good as people believe. Sorin's token spam first ability is not even as good as garruk, and you can't even use his second twice until you use the +1 first. The abilities are no better than the other planeswalkers we have. Liliana makes ppl discard and is a removal, Garruk tokenspams and is a removal, elspeth gains life and spams more tokens, Gideon is walking death on a stick and is a removal.
All these planeswalkers do a better job than sorin
First, which Garruk, {Garruk Wildspeaker} or the other one? The first Garruk makes vanilla 2/2s with no relevant type at a loss, not a gain. Sorin "tokenspams" for profit. They are a relevant creature type and they can gain you life.
I think you underestimate the value of an emblem, especially one that isn't an Ultimate. 2WB: for the rest of the game +1/+0 is respectable, particularly in an upcoming WB weenie/sac archetype I sense coming (Yes Spikepit, I'm calling it).
Sorin can win games singlehandedly. Not something all PWs can do. Plus he's has removal too!
Playability in Standard is not the only thing that defines a card's value. Sorin is oozing flavor, the second enemy-colored PW ever in a pair that hasnt had much love lately. Is he worth $50, I don't think so, but I will trade you Sorin for Garruk any day. ðŸ'°
When comared to garruk, any standard garruk for that matter, sorin cannot compete. Primal hunter makes 3/3 as a +1 which builds to his ultimate 6/6 bomb which would easily win games. Relentless is a threshold against anything that is a 2/2, and can produce wolf tokens and can win games singlehandedly on ether flip side.
Sorin makes 1/1 lifelink which has no evasion or even a significant power or body to trade with.
We know +1/0 as to be what? Battlecry! And what colors are battlecry? white and RED! Boros decks do not exist in the standard environment. And giving up 2/3 of sorin's original loyalty to give creatures +1/0 for four mana (making him vulnerable to geistflame and gut shot) is terrible for the cost.
Sorin has no removal except for his bomb, which takes 4 more turns before you can activate. Assuming you do not use his -2 at all (whic completely undermines his value)
Sorin, lord of innastrad is wayy overrated and is definitely not as good as what people believe it to be. (not saying it is bad or unplayable, just saying that it should not be looked up to as the next Jace TMS.)
What did I do with that gavel?
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 04:59:08 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on January 28, 2012, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Appleguru56 on January 28, 2012, 01:11:59 PM
The problem about sorin's first and second abilities are not as good as people believe. Sorin's token spam first ability is not even as good as garruk, and you can't even use his second twice until you use the +1 first. The abilities are no better than the other planeswalkers we have. Liliana makes ppl discard and is a removal, Garruk tokenspams and is a removal, elspeth gains life and spams more tokens, Gideon is walking death on a stick and is a removal.
All these planeswalkers do a better job than sorin
First, which Garruk, {Garruk Wildspeaker} or the other one? The first Garruk makes vanilla 2/2s with no relevant type at a loss, not a gain. Sorin "tokenspams" for profit. They are a relevant creature type and they can gain you life.
I think you underestimate the value of an emblem, especially one that isn't an Ultimate. 2WB: for the rest of the game +1/+0 is respectable, particularly in an upcoming WB weenie/sac archetype I sense coming (Yes Spikepit, I'm calling it).
Sorin can win games singlehandedly. Not something all PWs can do. Plus he's has removal too!
Playability in Standard is not the only thing that defines a card's value. Sorin is oozing flavor, the second enemy-colored PW ever in a pair that hasnt had much love lately. Is he worth $50, I don't think so, but I will trade you Sorin for Garruk any day. ðŸ'°
When comared to garruk, any standard garruk for that matter, sorin cannot compete. Primal hunter makes 3/3 as a +1 which builds to his ultimate 6/6 bomb which would easily win games. Relentless is a threshold against anything that is a 2/2, and can produce wolf tokens and can win games singlehandedly on ether flip side.
Sorin makes 1/1 lifelink which has no evasion or even a significant power or body to trade with.
We know +1/0 as to be what? Battlecry! And what colors are battlecry? white and RED! Boros decks do not exist in the standard environment. And giving up 2/3 of sorin's original loyalty to give creatures +1/0 for four mana (making him vulnerable to geistflame and gut shot) is terrible for the cost.
Sorin has no removal except for his bomb, which takes 4 more turns before you can activate. Assuming you do not use his -2 at all (whic completely undermines his value)
Sorin, lord of innastrad is wayy overrated and is definitely not as good as what people believe it to be. (not saying it is bad or unplayable, just saying that it should not be looked up to as the next Jace TMS.)
I actually haven't read anywhere that
has said that.
Again, why should Standard define the card price?
Yes other PW can win games alone, I just said "not all" of them.
Sorin is splashable in either color, while {Garruk Primalhunter} is very cost prohibitive. And don't get me wrong, I like all iterations of Garruk.
His "battle cry" like emblem works on blockers as well, and so what if red has the ability too? Giving black access to a more agro ability should be a good thing, not a drawback.
It only takes two "more" turns to use his ultimate.
Like I said, I don't think he's worth as much as he's going for, but as the only PW in the set, people are putting him up pretty high until the community starts using him. And I agree, he's not the next broken {Jace, The Mind Sculptor}.
While we are mentioning garruk... In my honest opinion I think relentless is the stupidest and most useless version of garruk.. Especially if you go to flip him. He is so vulnerable after activating the ability which flips him. It defeats the purpose unless you have enough blockers or counters.. Just my thought
Quote from: BlackJester on January 28, 2012, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Spikepit on January 28, 2012, 04:34:27 PM
✨: oh yeah, I can see it comin on the horizon too! Infact I already dubbed it 'Sac Hum' in another thread in a lame attempted to be a trend setter ... it wont take off ðŸ˜"
Ummm, be careful using the words "Sac" and "Hum" together... I'll let you think about that one. 😉
Awesome.
Quote from: Greg54js on January 28, 2012, 05:40:21 PM
While we are mentioning garruk... In my honest opinion I think relentless is the stupidest and most useless version of garruk.. Especially if you go to flip him. He is so vulnerable after activating the ability which flips him. It defeats the purpose unless you have enough blockers or counters.. Just my thought
What you can do is geistflame or gut shot relentless yourself and then flip to activate +1, since PW abilities claims priority, the opponent cant shock it
Wow that's a great idea... I didn't even think of giestflaming him..
{Garruk Relentless}
{Giestflame}
{Garruk Relentless}