So we have some new bannings and unbannings this morning..
{Kokusho, the evening star} now able to be used just not as a commander
{primeval Titan} BANNED.
Thank god. I hate this guy in commander
{worldfire} BANNED.
One word: Why?
{Worldfire} BANNED also.
:(
The bannings make sense to me.
{Worldifre} couldn't stop someone from just recasting commander after it resolved. Plus it's just not fun 90% of the time.
{Primeval Titan}... Did your deck have green? Then he was in it. The amount of tutoring coming out of a single card is quite ridiculous, so I can't say I blame them for that ban. Whether you agree or not, he was very oppresive if he came down turn 6 even, let alone earlier.
Quote from: Phat Max on September 19, 2012, 08:35:41 AM
The bannings make sense to me.
{Worldifre} couldn't stop someone from just recasting commander after it resolved. Plus it's just not fun 90% of the time.
{Primeval Titan}... Did your deck have green? Then he was in it. The amount of tutoring coming out of a single card is quite ridiculous, so I can't say I blame them for that ban. Whether you agree or not, he was very oppresive if he came down turn 6 even, let alone earlier.
Yeah, they make sense. Worldfire exiles your lands, but you commander is like 1 card in your hand that cannot be exiled. And prime time is pretty ridonkulous.
I'm more upset about the unbanning of Kokusho, honestly. It is going to be a staple in every black deck now, and reanimate decks will abuse the crap out of it. Kokusho -belonged- on that banned list.
My cousin told me why Kokusho was good, and I decided not to put it back in Jarad for the safety of my peersand the price,
I like how graveyard hate was the reason they unbanned...
Cause people have sideboards for Commander, and play 3 game matches, am I right?
Wtf p titty what did he do?? Like yes I ran him but he's not over powered by any means and I had two deck that stole other Ppls primals for me D:
Quote from: Elitehalo360 on September 19, 2012, 11:34:45 AM
Wtf p titty what did he do?? Like yes I ran him but he's not over powered by any means and I had two deck that stole other Ppls primals for me D:
When all your running is non basics... This guy tends to be a boss and if you have green anywhere on your commander your deff running this guy.
Quote from: Greg54js on September 19, 2012, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Elitehalo360 on September 19, 2012, 11:34:45 AM
Wtf p titty what did he do?? Like yes I ran him but he's not over powered by any means and I had two deck that stole other Ppls primals for me D:
When all your running is non basics... This guy tends to be a boss and if you have green anywhere on your commander your deff running this guy.
Still not overpowered for it to be banned imho
Well if he's used right, he can be insane with a landfall deck. There are also other decks that profit from his ability. He's just insane across the board
Prof link please!?
Quote from: Juggalonoke on September 19, 2012, 03:37:08 PM
Prof link please!?
For the bannings?
Mtgcommander.net under rules
Dude this sucks!
Yes in two of my best running commander decks ATM
Commander is a casual format at heart: if no one cares in your play group, keep on playing PT.
But if it's a more 'organized' event... Gonna have to swap him out
Quote from: Phat Max on September 19, 2012, 07:56:27 PM
Commander is a casual format at heart: if no one cares in your play group, keep on playing PT.
But if it's a more 'organized' event... Gonna have to swap him out
I do both that's why it sucks so much i don't wanna have to keep swapping him in and out
Not much can be done about that, although I'd just take him out for good. I know I'd forget one time and get DQ'd or some nonsense.
Quote from: Phat Max on September 19, 2012, 08:16:47 PM
Not much can be done about that, although I'd just take him out for good. I know I'd forget one time and get DQ'd or some nonsense.
Same I think that's about all I can do :/
I know what you mean. I really want {Griselbrand} in my decks, but I'd rather just not deal with the hassle.
Quote from: Phat Max on September 19, 2012, 08:40:11 PM
I know what you mean. I really want {Griselbrand} in my decks, but I'd rather just not deal with the hassle.
LOl that's nothing I built and ENTIRE deck around him only to find out 2 days after finishing it that he was banned
So guess what's coming out of my mimeoplasm deck and going in?
Its like the ban of ponder in
Modern.
Don't get me wrong, I love {serra ascendent} (it's great in my gisela deck), but how in the world was that not considered for banning? it seems broken in commander unless; A: you are playing in multiplayer where someone is almost bound to have a removal spell. or B. house rules are added to make it 50 or even 60 life.
Quote from: Darius on September 22, 2012, 07:32:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love {serra ascendent} (it's great in my gisela deck), but how in the world was that not considered for banning?
At the end of the day, {Serra Ascendant} is just a creature and can be killed with a million different means. A 6/6 isn't even that huge in this environment.
I am sad to see the Titan go...I felt that he was a "big, splashy effect" which is kind of the hallmark of the format. At the same time, I can totally see the counter-argument. I am surprised they didn't ban {Consecrated Sphinx}...he kinda rides the line between "big-and-splashy" the same way thenTitan did.
I am glad I get to play with my Kokushos again. Outside of a casual {Dragonstorm} deck, they really had no home.
When it comes to the competitive scene, tutors are some of the most powerful abilities to have in a commander deck. Games come down to who tutors the win, which is boring (IMO) :)
{Primeval Titan} does this every turn basically. It is 'just' lands... But it is still too easy to abuse.
{Consecrated Sphinx} just draws two cards, which while powerful in its own right... It's not gonna auto-draw the win condition like PT could
well, on a 4-player table...it draws 6 cards per turn. That is a lot...?
Also means there's six people that should at least have something to deal with it... Otherwise they should lose ;)
I just dont see how {primeval timetan} is such a big problem... I mean yeah he ramps big and can change games but doesnt most cards on that cmc do something radical like that? Christ even {day of judgement} changes games ALOT more imho!
Quote from: Fenster on September 23, 2012, 05:07:09 AM
I just dont see how {primeval timetan} is such a big problem... I mean yeah he ramps big and can change games but doesnt most cards on that cmc do something radical like that? Christ even {day of judgement} changes games ALOT more imho!
Nevermind too tired but prime time is op
He gets 2 lands... ANY 2 lands. Commander has access to every land ever printed.
Choosing not to look at what kinda shenanigans he could do doesn't make him not OP.
Arent there other cards that bring you lands? Arent there also many ways to shut him down? Counterspells, removal and torpor orb for the etb.
I just dont see whats wrong with him? He ramps! He's mana fix! He's big! He's green incarnate! But not Op. Strong, yes. Op no.
And 1 in 99 that you get him every time aswell? (roughly)
OP: definitely. I don't know how many of your land bases revolve around non basics but mine sure as hell do. The other ramp spells can't compare to a 6/6 for 6 that gets you 2 non basics every turn. Plus this guy is the biggest f'ing tutor target in any deck that even splashes green. Fenster idk what you're smoking but this guy is most certainly OP
OP indeed
So why isnt more cards that are considered even more powerful banned too? I justhate bannings i guess. Even more so the once that have vauge reasons for being banned.
Quote from: Fenster on September 24, 2012, 04:32:53 AM
So why isnt more cards that are considered even more powerful banned too? I justhate bannings i guess. Even more so the once that have vauge reasons for being banned.
I second this like it's one thing if a new card comes out and it forces a format to totally change and have to run answers for it in every deck, like griselbrand, but prime time has been in edh for over a year, why ban it now??
I think prime time had it coming. If it were basic lands and he were a super amazing mana fixer, he'd be powerful and good. But in EDH, he's grabbing stuff like {maze of ith} and {command tower}, or {thawing glaciers} and {minamo school at waters edge}. The list of crazy commander land shenanigans can go on. And he just keeps on bringing them straight to the battlefield. If it were basics, or to the hand, it'd be another story.
Urzatron
Quote from: Gorzo on September 24, 2012, 05:10:53 PM
I think prime time had it coming. If it were basic lands and he were a super amazing mana fixer, he'd be powerful and good. But in EDH, he's grabbing stuff like {maze of ith} and {command tower}, or {thawing glaciers} and {minamo school at waters edge}. The list of crazy commander land shenanigans can go on. And he just keeps on bringing them straight to the battlefield. If it were basics, or to the hand, it'd be another story.
Exactly. Gorzo you read my mind
Not gonna lie, Titan into {Gaea's Cradle} or {Cabal Coffers}/{Lake of the Dead}/{Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth} was pretty brutal. {Maze of Ith} and {Stip Mine} variants were pretty abusive too. Still, plenty of decks played him fairly fair and he was still the #1 tutor target when you cast {Tooth and Nail} or {Green Sun's Zenyith}....I think that was probably the most offensive part of {Primeval Titan} - he was in a color with a ton of ways to put him directly into play.
....I am sure {Avenger of Zendikar} is happy that people will be searching their libraries for him again....
I'm still waiting for them to ban {Necropotence} bloody rediculous with 40 life total start...lol...never happen though. If its black its always back. Headache since ice age block so that's a lot of headaches...
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on September 25, 2012, 03:51:30 PM
I'm still waiting for them to ban {Necropotence} bloody rediculous with 40 life total start...lol...never happen though. If its black its always back. Headache since ice age block so that's a lot of headaches...
Totally forgot Necropotence was legal in commander. It should be banned, for sure, it's crazy powerful. Makes me want to make a mono black deck right now, with Kokusho in it now that he's legal again and stupid OP. too bad griselbrand got banned, he could be the commander of this insane deck :P
I want {Serra ascendent} banned in edh. Maybe I'm just bitter, lol.
Tbh this is the first bad banning I've had to deal with in commander, I mean I probably just never had to deal with an OP primeval Titan or mabe I just play with people who use him nicely but honestly it's a format that only gets better and better and there is so much removal in edh most likely he gets counter stolen exiled or destroy, like I'm taking apparat my rafiq deck just because of this banning.
Again, this is primarily for EDH events, i.e. competitive. If you just play casual, ask if anyone cares, and go from there.
Quote from: Phat Max on September 28, 2012, 01:44:20 PM
Again, this is primarily for EDH events, i.e. competitive. If you just play casual, ask if anyone cares, and go from there.
True but I have a rule adviser that got so but hurt over me having it during a game kicked me outta the game
Quote from: Elitehalo360 on September 28, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Phat Max on September 28, 2012, 01:44:20 PM
Again, this is primarily for EDH events, i.e. competitive. If you just play casual, ask if anyone cares, and go from there.
True but I have a rule adviser that got so but hurt over me having it during a game kicked me outta the game
Wow, he kicked you from a casual game for having a banned card? The WORST that should happen in a CASUAL game is is "hey, that card is banned, exile it and play something else as if you never drew it." It's happened in my meta and we either
A) had him draw a card to replace the banned mistake or
B) let him use the banned card and play because its all for fun anyway, and mock him relentlessly :D
"Well gee guys, I WAS gonna save this {terminate} for a REAL threat, but since cheatyface McCheaterson over here is casting {griselbrand}, I GUESS I HAVE to use it on that. GOSH! What a jerk!" -table groans in sarcastic agreement that kill spell was forcibly wasted-
Quote from: Elitehalo360 on September 28, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Phat Max on September 28, 2012, 01:44:20 PM
Again, this is primarily for EDH events, i.e. competitive. If you just play casual, ask if anyone cares, and go from there.
True but I have a rule adviser that got so but hurt over me having it during a game kicked me outta the game
Hence me saying ask people before you play. If the group your playing with doesn't care, rules advisor be-damned IMO.
If you mentioned you had PT mid-game, I can see why people would be upset. Not that I would be, but its the rules, either state this fact before the game, or come what may.
I agree prime time is too good and should be banned but look at some of the cards that are legal in EDH that aren't banned (yet). {necropotence}, {cathars' crusade} with any token maker and there are tons){Niv-Mizzett, the firemind} with {curiosity}, {tooth and nail} with {blightsteel colossus} (Especially considering poison counter kill is sooo easy to do with 10 still being the tko number)To name but a few. In comparison, {primeval Titan} doesn't seem quite so bad.
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on September 28, 2012, 05:46:22 PM
I agree prime time is too good and should be banned but look at some of the cards that are legal in EDH that aren't banned (yet). {necropotence}, {cathars' crusade} with any token maker and there are tons){Niv-Mizzett, the firemind} with {curiosity}, {tooth and nail} with {blightsteel colossus} (Especially considering poison counter kill is sooo easy to do with 10 still being the tko number)To name but a few. In comparison, {primeval Titan} doesn't seem quite so bad.
I agree on {Necropotence}, and really the poison rule should be changed to 20, or at least 15. The rest don't bother me.
Niv and curiosity is vulnerable to removal.
Blightsteel less so, but still manageable.
{Cathar's Crusade}? I don't see how that's broken. {Day of Judgement} or any number of sweepers wreck that.
Ya, I just have a hate on for cathar's crusade right now after dealing with it and about a dozen overgrown 12/12 saprolings my buddy dropped on us. A {concordant crossroads} in play would have won him the game. However, the play brought the wrath of the entire table against him cause none of us could clear the board. Still, cathar's crusade with the crossroads out is vicious.
Quote from: Gorzo on September 28, 2012, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: Elitehalo360 on September 28, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Phat Max on September 28, 2012, 01:44:20 PM
Again, this is primarily for EDH events, i.e. competitive. If you just play casual, ask if anyone cares, and go from there.
True but I have a rule adviser that got so but hurt over me having it during a game kicked me outta the game
Wow, he kicked you from a casual game for having a banned card? The WORST that should happen in a CASUAL game is is "hey, that card is banned, exile it and play something else as if you never drew it." It's happened in my meta and we either
A) had him draw a card to replace the banned mistake or
B) let him use the banned card and play because its all for fun anyway, and mock him relentlessly :D
"Well gee guys, I WAS gonna save this {terminate} for a REAL threat, but since cheatyface McCheaterson over here is casting {griselbrand}, I GUESS I HAVE to use it on that. GOSH! What a jerk!" -table groans in sarcastic agreement that kill spell was forcibly wasted-
Right after he draws 35 cards.
Quote from: Phat Max on September 28, 2012, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on September 28, 2012, 05:46:22 PM
I agree on {Necropotence}, and really the poison rule should be changed to 20, or at least 15. The rest don't bother me.
I find that finding answers when people try to poison or infect me in edh is pretty easy. I have yet to be poisoned to death. Although {triumph of the hordes} in my mono green is brutal and unfair. Heh.
I don't always die to infect in EDH...
... But when I do, it's {Blightsteel Colossus} + shenanigans.
Quote from: Phat Max on September 28, 2012, 10:59:49 PM
I don't always die to infect in EDH...
... But when I do, it's {Blightsteel Colossus} + shenanigans.
Same, but I've only been up against an actual infect deck once...and he got murdered pretty quickly once people got a couple poison counters on them - no one was about to let that threat survive to see glory, and his infect critters simply couldn't stop the oncoming assault. They are not good blockers :P
I have a perfect example of y prime time should be and I was the on that did it. I had an {Amulet if Vigor} and {Mana Flare} out. On my turn after an opponent played him I played {Phyexian Metamorph} and got my own one then got 2 land. Next turn I played {Rite of Replication} with the kicker and popped out 5 more and gained 10 land that same turn played {Snapcaster Mage} and redid the it again gaining 5 more and 10 more land then I played {Followed Footsteps} on one and every turn afterward I got another one and 2 more land. Then I played {Cackling Counterpart} and got 1 more and 2 more land. Then next turn I flashback the counterpart and gained 2 that turn. Within 3 turns I got 14 prime times and 28 land. Just bc I wait for him and set up the combo and this was starting turn 4 or 5 I believe and there wasnt a white player to board wipe and no one had one in their hand until prom turn 12 if the game lasted that long.
Okay, so the sticky has been outdated for some time. I just updated and thought I would summarize what has changed in the sticky, for those of you who have been relying on it for your banning information. It is now matching the official bannings of mtgCommander.
-Kokusho removed. Added to "can't be commander" list instead.
-removed a card that I totally forget what it was but it ain't banned no mo' so it shouldn't be there!
-{Ancestral Recall} added.
-{Black Lotus} added.
-{Channel} added.
-{Sundering Titan} added.
-{Primeval Titan} added.
-{Time Walk} added.
-{Worldfire} added.
-Mox gems added.
Long overdue update. I'll keep it updated the best I can as new bannings/unbannings roll out.
Does anybody know why {chromatic lantern} comes up in red text on my deck list???
Still being updated i think most of the return 2 ravnica is
Quote from: Erzengel on October 08, 2012, 02:30:45 PM
Still being updated i think most of the return 2 ravnica is
Yup, its because RTR is still new and the database is still being brought up to date. I'll make sure Piotr knows, this is also happening with planechase 2012-specific creatures like {Thromak the Insatiable}.
FYI all the RTR cards in my decks are now black instead of red