Touchy Subjects #2: Abortion *NFSW

The question of abortion is whether or not a fetus is a human.

Indeed, and as you have shown, this is not really a question which can be answered in a way acceptable by the 'pro choice' folks. I have never seen a single logical argument proving that fetus is not human (other than using arbitrary black and white logic which simply defines fetus as non human, to avoid the problem).

Exactly.

I am entirely in favor of maintaining and even reinforcing/strengthening of a woman's right to have an abortion (ie: a national-level definition of when abortions are legal, and preventing the recent absurdities recently passed in some states to restrict access to abortions). The logic asserted in Roe v. Wade falls in line with my personal take on the issue from a legality standpoint, that it is a matter of privacy that should be left to the discretion of the individual woman. A bunch of old conservative hags constantly trying to kill access to abortion at the state level do not have any reason to be interested in the reproductive decisions of any woman, period. The decision to end a pregnancy via abortion is solely the decision of the woman involved, she is the one who has to go through the pregnancy and most likely the raising of the child, presuming the single-mother situation that many people stereotype the typical abortion-seeker to be.

I am not going to try and argue about the moral views on abortion, when "life" begins or any of that. Each of us is entitled to their own opinion on when life begins, and when a fetus is considered to be a person. Ironically, if you respect that assertion, one of the definitive pillars of the American System (ie: individual liberty, not being forced to look through the moral compass/lens of another person/religion/belief system), then the argument over abortion doesn't seem like it should be much of an argument at all. No one is forcing you specifically to have an abortion (oh the irony in a discussion involving 99.99% males). Individuals who feel that it is morally wrong are completely entitled to not have an abortion, and more power to them. However, I strongly reject the notion that a country founded upon individual liberty and filled with people who praise individual liberty should restrict he reproductive decisions of any woman, whatever their personal moral stance on the issue may be.

Just my $.02 on the topic.

Each of us is entitled to their own opinion on when life begins, and when a fetus is considered to be a person.

Does that mean you are perfectly ok if we declare you not a person and based on that opinion abort you?

I'm pro choice and a lot of my friends are too. of course this also depends on how you were raised and what morals this woman agrees with. There's also other options besides an abortion like adopting but if the woman doesn't want to have the baby in the first place. One of my close friends got pregnant she was 15 and she got an abortion because she wouldn't have Gotten enough support from her family. So the choice not only depends on the woman or the girl there's other factors that are involved. And that is why I'm pro choice it's the woman's choice and its hers alone.

Quote from: ihasfrozen on July 18, 2013, 12:28:54 PM

Each of us is entitled to their own opinion on when life begins, and when a fetus is considered to be a person.

Does that mean you are perfectly ok if we declare you not a person and based on that opinion abort you?

If I'm an unborn fetus and my mother does not want to have a child, absolutely.

Quote from: Piotr on July 18, 2013, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: ihasfrozen on July 18, 2013, 12:28:54 PM

Each of us is entitled to their own opinion on when life begins, and when a fetus is considered to be a person.

Does that mean you are perfectly ok if we declare you not a person and based on that opinion abort you?

If I'm an unborn fetus and my mother does not want to have a child, absolutely.

What makes you think that fetus is not human?

I'm pro choice and a lot of my friends are too. of course this also depends on how you were raised and what morals this woman agrees with. There's also other options besides an abortion like adopting but if the woman doesn't want to have the baby in the first place. One of my close friends got pregnant she was 15 and she got an abortion because she wouldn't have Gotten enough support from her family. So the choice not only depends on the woman or the girl there's other factors that are involved. And that is why I'm pro choice it's the woman's choice and its hers alone.

I find it repulsive when people say that killing other humans is a question of choice. I believe that killing can only be done as punishment in murder case or in self defense.

Against although I do think the population needs to drop. At the current rate food prices will outscale the population in 50 years.

Quote from: ihasfrozen on July 18, 2013, 01:15:39 PM

Quote from: Piotr on July 18, 2013, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: ihasfrozen on July 18, 2013, 12:28:54 PM

Each of us is entitled to their own opinion on when life begins, and when a fetus is considered to be a person.

Does that mean you are perfectly ok if we declare you not a person and based on that opinion abort you?

If I'm an unborn fetus and my mother does not want to have a child, absolutely.

What makes you think that fetus is not human?

It is a developing group of cells in an incubator. I will concede that a fetus in the third trimester of a pregnancy could be considered to be human-like, but I only consider a fetus that is surviving outside and unattached to the mother (ie: not dependent on the umbilical cord) to be human, which would only occur after birth (and making it no longer a fetus).

Level of development...  You are implying that just because is not developed it isn't human.  As soon as that fetus begins to form it is human.  Period.  A baby isn't developed are you saying they aren't human?

Level of dependance.  Yes you are human if you heavily depend on someone.  Just because you have disabilities doesn't mean you aren't human.  Saying that is practically inhumane.

Biology says no to you good sir.

Until the fetus is removed from the womb it is by definition not a human being.

*reinsert egg/acorn story*

It's a hard debate to get into because I can't see how any person morally could take the chance that aborting a fetus is not murdering a human and have no conscience about it.

A fetus is a developing human. It has human DNA.

Oh no! It doesn't breathe air on its own yet! When you're born you can't talk or walk, yet you have legs and vocal chords. Just not fully developed.

I can sum up how I feel about abortion and how people can legally kill innocent developing humans.

Sick.

Quote from: ihasfrozen on July 18, 2013, 12:28:54 PM

Each of us is entitled to their own opinion on when life begins, and when a fetus is considered to be a person.

Does that mean you are perfectly ok if we declare you not a person and based on that opinion abort you?

One word: Bahahahahaha!!

I believe that if the mother was raped, (...), then go ahead with the abortion.

The unborn human is not guilty of the rape, therefore we cannot punish him with death.

Rape is a very serious crime and if you would argue that the logical punishment for it would be removal of the violator's genitals, I wouldn't have a problem with that. The issue is that it is a crime normally quite hard to prove.

@slenderbro.  S if I abort a fetus 2 seconds before it comes out, it's not murder because its not human, and If I kill a baby 2 seconds after it comes out, it's murder because its outside?  Definitions aren't always the best thing to go by because they can misleading.  The technical term is a fetus, and fetuses live just like baby's.

A baby does not live inside of and depend 100% on the health of the mother, but yeah, otherwise it is exactly the same as a fetus.

Definitions aren't always the best to go by because guess what? There is no clear definition of when a fetus becomes a person with consciousness and self-awareness (you know, the things that define a human), it is entirely subjective, which is why this issue is so divisive and unmoving.