Touchy Subjects #2: Abortion *NFSW

[Slenderbro]

But you see that's the broadest category possible. There are thousands of sub-category's and sub-category's for those all pointing that we should not be lumped together with your run of the mill creatures. We have been given so much more to work with to squander it by saying hey I'm just like that turtle so I should leave my child on the beach till it finds it's way to the sea. No we don't abandon our young and we don't kill them in the womb. What animal does that?

Some verities of the pigeon do such as the modena or king.

They will stomp on developing fetus' in order to protect a nest. Yes i know it's dumb but i used to raise them.

Trust me you will never win this argument.

[ELLERfeller]

If I saw it as an argument I wouldn't be posted private beliefs on a card game forum I'm discussing not attacking or arguing or even debating I could never change someone's mind via the Internet. But that still means that we both see opposite sides of many things it seems.

[MacheteMable]

I'm pro choice. Just like with gay marriage I don't think that other people should be able to dictate and regulate what people do to their bodies. It should be the choice of the person or persons involved and not of someone whom doesn't know that person to decide. There are many circumstances where an abortion would be necessary or justified.

My issue is serial abortion and I think that's where the real issue is. There are girls that use abortion as a means of birth control or a fall back plan in case something happens. I knew a girl that had 4 abortions when she was a teenager. This is where I see the problem.

So I don't have a problem with abortion, I have a problem with abortion being used inappropriately and in excessive amounts.

[ELLERfeller]

So wouldn't making abortion legal be like giving these girls free reign to terminate pregnancies? If it's a medical issue and it will potentially kill the mother it ceases to be abortion but a serious medical issue which is something totally different!

[Anoobass]

After reading all these it seems the opinions are on both sides a lot more than the same sex marriage.  My personal opinion is that a woman should be able to choose what she does with her child.  I don't think abortions are the best thing to do but here is my counter.  Say a 14 year old girl gets pregnant.  Do you really think that a 15 year old should be raising a baby?  Yes she shouldn't have had unprotected sex.  Yes she is an absolute idiot for letting this happen, but do you really feel that she is a person that should be raising a child.  Even if the parents are willing to help, I doubt they wanted another child.  As far as foster homes go, not all of them are that great, I know several friends who would still like to know who their real parents are.  This leaves adoption as the only other choice.  And yes, many people out there do want to adopt for several reasons such as cant have their own, etc...  But I doubt that there are enough people wanting to adopt as there are abortions every year.  And as for rape, that is a totally different argument entirely, I see no reason why a woman who was raped and wants to have an abortion should not be able to get one.  But as the person above me said, serial abortion is a problem.  That is something that needs to be stopped, a girl shouldn't just be able to keep getting abortions, that is when I would call that "murder".  That is just what I believe.

Anoobass

[That_Guy]

95% against it, the other 5% is the baby wont make it, and it is kore human to kill it before it is born so to say, it seems unlikely but it has happened.

[Silent1236]

NSFW noted. Rant mode engaged

Animal discussion:  Some dogs eat .poo.. Does that mean I should eat .poo. because we're both animals?  No.  That thing in my skull is more developed for a reason. Just because animals act on instinct doesn't mean we have to. Comparing humans to birds is like comparing a Bugatti to a bicycle. Essentially, yes, a Bugatti and a bike will get you where you need to go, which is their essential purpose.  However, there are about 5481948.4 other components to consider. We are technically animals that can follow pure instincts, but again, there is a nearly infinite amount of other factors making us more advanced than that.

Abortion:  That's .loved. up. Seriously.  Should mentally challenged people just be killed off just because they're not fully developed?  How about people born with some kind of skin/limb/etc deformity?  No.  That's murder. So why is it ok to just brush off murdering an unborn child?  They're not fully developed?  They're not aware of anything?  In my eyes, getting an abortion would be equivalent to walking up to someone you don't like and putting a bullet in their head. You don't want to be bothered by the person you dislike just like you don't want to be bothered by a child.

Teenagers that get an abortion because it was an "oops" baby are pathetic. If you didn't want to potentially get pregnant, maybe you shouldn't have spread your legs in the first place, no?   Even if you're some super hormonal couple that can't keep your pants up, there are these strange things called condoms that aid in deterring pregnancy.  Fascinating, isn't it?  I live in a tiny town and our gas station even carries them, so "no access" is a pretty dumpy excuse.  If you wind up getting pregnant when you don't want to, tough, there shouldn't be an easy way out on that. That's someone's life you're ending, not just some reset button that'll let you say "Oops" and giggle it away. Rape is the only thing that slightly makes my opinion sway, but even then, adoption agencies still are a thing.

[Piotr]

Yeah, I'm generally against, with few exceptions - and here we get to hear a cold, logical Cb - such as preserving the mother's life. What I mean is, if an abortion saves the mother from a likely lethal pregnancy, a part of me sees reason for choice; it allows her to live and try again. However, as for the other anti-posts, I agree. There are precautionary measures and viable recourses in every instance listed

This is the only case that I know of when abortion would be legal under iMtG law. The logic is this: unborn child is threatening mother's life, logical punishment for that is capital punishment. Self defense case.

[Piotr]

I agree, 3rd trimester abortions tend to be a walk on the moral tightrope, but i still think it should be the future mother's choice.

What about the father's choice?

[Piotr]

a 14 year old girl gets pregnant.  Do you really think that a 15 year old should be raising a baby?

Do you have the slightest idea how long the queue for adoption is?

[ApexPredator]

I agree, 3rd trimester abortions tend to be a walk on the moral tightrope, but i still think it should be the future mother's choice.

What about the father's choice?

This sir I completely agree with

[Piotr]

I agree, 3rd trimester abortions tend to be a walk on the moral tightrope, but i still think it should be the future mother's choice.

What about the father's choice?

This sir I completely agree with

This was just a question, to point out logical fallacy of his reasoning. I believe that the last word on the matter belongs to the unborn child, and I assume it wants to live in all cases, therefore abortion is illegal*.

* I live by iMtG law.

[ApexPredator]

I really don't have a stance on this subject but I do believe in most cases the father should have say as well.

[Coffee Vampire]

The question of abortion is not in whether or not the mother has the right to choose. The question of abortion is whether or not a fetus is a human. If it is not a human, then of course the mother, who is forced to grow fat and endure pain because of this thing, should be able to choose to get rid of it. On the other hand, if a fetus is a human, then there is absolutely no one who can claim that it is the mother's right to choose to get rid of it. That's because it would be like a mother drowning her infant because the infant was ruining her good mood with his crying. That being said, let's see what seperates a fetus from a grown man or woman. And you can the decision as to whether or not these differences are enough to claim that a fetus is not human, and therefore can be disposed of as garbage. As it turns out, there are four things that seperate a fetus from you and me.

1: size. A fetus is much smaller than even a toddler. You could a fetus in the palm of your hand. So, does this difference make it less human than you? Are you more of a human than your friend who is shorter than you, or is your father more human than you because he is larger than you? Is a fetus less of a human than a toddler because it is smaller? Maybe.

2: level of development. A fetus is less developed than a born baby, a toddler, and you and me. A fetus cannot even talk yet. A fetus cannot walk either. Maybe that makes it less human. Is an 18-year old leas human than a fully developed man? Are you more human than your younger sibling? The brain does not finish developing until the thirties. If level of development is something that stops a fetus from being human, these are questions that should be answered.

3: level of dependance. A fetus is pretty much the definition of dependant. A fetus needs to be attatched to the mother for now, or it will obviously die. This looks like a deciding factor, making a fetus not a human. But let's make sure. That one guy in the hospital who can't breath or eat or walk without assistance. Now let's get somethig straight here: we are talking about whether or not this man is human. Not whether or not he should live. That's another debate entirely. So anyways, getting back. This guy. He will never walk. He will never feed himself. He will never breath by himself. Oh, and of course he can't talk. Is he less human are? What about you? What if you live with your parents. They feed you. They buy your singles. Without them you would perish. Maybe you are not as human as you thought.

4: location. Location location location. A fetus is trapped inside of a womb. Well for now, anyways. A fetus cannot really change that fact either. Perhaps the fact that it is in the location of a womb makes it less human, and therefore disposable. Maybe that is it. Let's see, how about a trick question? Ok great. So there are two twenty-somethings. Both dirt poor. One is in Africa and one is in Russia. Neither can change their location, because they lack the means. Which is more human than the other? Ah, I warned you. It's a trick question. They are both human. Okay here's another question. Not a trick question. Mr. Bob lives in China, but Mr. Bob is rich and can go where he pleases. However, Mr. Fetus is not so fortunate. He is trapped in a dark and confined place, nof yet able to go where he pleases. Based on location, which one is more human? Decide.

So, are any of those reasons strong enough to support the claim that a fetus is not human, but somethig else entirely? Something that should be killed if it becomes an inconvenience?

What is the unborn? According to logic, human. What do you think? This post is not meant to feed the fire for anti-abortionists, making them feel all good inside. This post isn't meant to anger people that think abortion is OK either. This post presents the facts to you, the jury. The judge. The exocutioner.

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Level of development...  You are implying that just because is not developed it isn't human.  As soon as that fetus begins to form it is human.  Period.  A baby isn't developed are you saying they aren't human?

Level of dependance.  Yes you are human if you heavily depend on someone.  Just because you have disabilities doesn't mean you aren't human.  Saying that is practically inhumane.