Debate thread.

the Obama care bill was actually inspired by Romney care. And if Romney was elected he would have gotten rid of obama care...only to replace it with Romney care...

why the heck would he have even done that? there virtually the same thing. I don't like the idea of government run healthcare in general, but that just seems childish. And you know, Romney won the popular vote, but Obama won the election...WHAT?! I feel like my vote doesn't even matter and that's why i didn't vote in the last election

I feel like my vote doesn't even matter

This feeling have some serious mathematical backup. And apart from that, your vote doesn't matter indeed, what matters is what are your choices.

Quote from: Birdbrain1 on May 15, 2013, 09:57:35 AM

I feel like my vote doesn't even matter

This feeling have some serious mathematical backup. And apart from that, your vote doesn't matter indeed, what matters is what are you choices.

Please, please no matter your political standing or beliefs, do not advocate not voting. While its true to an extent you aren't going to get everything you believe in via a person you put into power, don't tell someone voting doesn't matter. Never decide to just not vote because it "doesn't matter" it does, if not mathematically then fundamentally, how do you as a person expect change if you don't even take small steps like voting seriously? I'm simply dumbfounded.

Quote from: Piotr on May 15, 2013, 10:07:52 AM

Quote from: Birdbrain1 on May 15, 2013, 09:57:35 AM

I feel like my vote doesn't even matter

This feeling have some serious mathematical backup. And apart from that, your vote doesn't matter indeed, what matters is what are you choices.

Please, please no matter your political standing or beliefs, do not advocate not voting. While its true to an extent you aren't going to get everything you believe in via a person you put into power, don't tell someone voting doesn't matter. Never decide to just not vote because it "doesn't matter" it does, if not mathematically then fundamentally, how do you as a person expect change if you don't even take small steps like voting seriously? I'm simply dumbfounded.

Lol, you refuse to obey your government, for example. You did once, as far as I remember the history Voting won't change anything. Voting is a lie.

Also, democracy as a system of running anything at all must be one of the dumbest if not the dumbest method. I think it was Lenin or one of the others who noted, that for socialism to win all you need to do is to implement democracy and wait. I wouldn't call a lie on this one, because that's what happened // is happening, republic was replaced with democracy and now with every year there's more and more welfare state in the US. True or false?

If you want to have an educated debate about how bad vs. good democracy is we can go for it, but I'm happy to agree to disagree.

Quote from: Vyse on May 15, 2013, 11:34:10 AM

Quote from: Piotr on May 15, 2013, 10:07:52 AM

Quote from: Birdbrain1 on May 15, 2013, 09:57:35 AM

I feel like my vote doesn't even matter

This feeling have some serious mathematical backup. And apart from that, your vote doesn't matter indeed, what matters is what are you choices.

Please, please no matter your political standing or beliefs, do not advocate not voting. While its true to an extent you aren't going to get everything you believe in via a person you put into power, don't tell someone voting doesn't matter. Never decide to just not vote because it "doesn't matter" it does, if not mathematically then fundamentally, how do you as a person expect change if you don't even take small steps like voting seriously? I'm simply dumbfounded.

Lol, you refuse to obey your government, for example. You did once, as far as I remember the history Voting won't change anything. Voting is a lie.

Also, democracy as a system of running anything at all must be one of the dumbest if not the dumbest method. I think it was Lenin or one of the others who noted, that for socialism to win all you need to do is to implement democracy and wait. I wouldn't call a lie on this one, because that's what happened // is happening, republic was replaced with democracy and now with every year there's more and more welfare state in the US. True or false?

If you want to have an educated debate about how bad vs. good democracy is we can go for it, but I'm happy to agree to disagree.

I don't want this to be a battle of opinions, I don't care what you believe is happening to the U.S, nore do my opinions matter. Telling someone not to vote is a heinous act. Yes the electoral collage has stepped in on more than one occasion, but that doesn't mean don't vote. I have opinions on the Uk, but I've only got them through the Internet and other media sources. I don't live there, just like you don't live here Piotr. There is literally no arguing with you though, as in your mind you are always right. Regardless, please, if you have opinions and want to be heard, begin with voting, and I don't mean just on the president, vote locally and for representatives too.

If you want to have an educated debate about how bad vs. good democracy is we can go for it, but I'm happy to agree to disagree.

I don't want this to be a battle of opinions
[/quote]

Splendid! Mathematically, it is more probable that you will die in a car crash on the way to the poll station, than that your vote will change anything. True or false?

If true, I believe asking people to go voting is a wicked act.

Splendid! Mathematically, it is more probable that you will die in a car crash on the way to the poll station, than that your vote will change anything. True or false?

What. Neither statistic is going to be accurate, as at any point in time there can be more traffic or less, it's objective, just as voting is objective as well, it depends on how many people vote. So strictly speaking one vote could tip the scales, just like one drunk driver could end your life that much quicker. Your arguement is so ridiculous, some people walk to the polls like i did. Don't be afraid to drive and don't be afraid to vote.

Quote from: Piotr on May 15, 2013, 02:03:53 PM

Splendid! Mathematically, it is more probable that you will die in a car crash on the way to the poll station, than that your vote will change anything. True or false?

What. Neither statistic is going to be accurate, as at any point in time there can be more traffic or less, it's objective, just as voting is objective as well, it depends on how many people vote. So strictly speaking one vote could tip the scales, just like one drunk driver could end your life that much quicker. Your arguement is so ridiculous, some people walk to the polls like i did. Don't be afraid to drive and don't be afraid to vote.

My reasoning is not ridiculous at all, it is simply logical. Do you know that in the year after 9.11 approximately 1000 people died because they were afraid to fly, decided to drive, and died in car crash? This is based on pretty convincing statistics and logic.

I bet you yearly Patronage that more people died on the way to poll stations than there were major votes in the history of US decided by one vote.

Quote from: Vyse on May 15, 2013, 02:29:23 PM

Quote from: Piotr on May 15, 2013, 02:03:53 PM

Splendid! Mathematically, it is more probable that you will die in a car crash on the way to the poll station, than that your vote will change anything. True or false?

What. Neither statistic is going to be accurate, as at any point in time there can be more traffic or less, it's objective, just as voting is objective as well, it depends on how many people vote. So strictly speaking one vote could tip the scales, just like one drunk driver could end your life that much quicker. Your arguement is so ridiculous, some people walk to the polls like i did. Don't be afraid to drive and don't be afraid to vote.

My reasoning is not ridiculous at all, it is simply logical. Do you know that in the year after 9.11 approximately 1000 people died because they were afraid to fly, decided to drive, and died in car crash? This is based on pretty convincing statistics and logic.

I bet you yearly Patronage that more people died on the way to poll stations than there were major votes in the history of US decided by one vote.

You win your patronage. I think I read its 800 million to 1 itll be decided on 1 vote. I'm not saying it comes down to one vote, but every vote matters, if 65,000 people didnt vote because "their vote doesnt matter" it would affect the polls drastically. don't tell someone not to vote just because they aren't going to be the deciding vote.

65k votes is maybe worth something, but 1 is worthless. To that one man you are proposing to take risk which is orders of magnitude bigger that his potential gain. That one man is real, not statistics.

Out of 120 million some estimated votes, I wonder how many people died going to the poll booth. Send me the statistics piotr. Why did you twist this into "statistically you're likely to die doing anything" when all I was trying to promote was voting. There's no point to it.

So Piotr, just so we're clear you are ok with wealth redistribution when a company is in charge of the money (that's the way insurance works) but not when a government that is responsible to their people through a democratic process is?

No my friend. We are not ok with any wealth redistribution whatsoever, as wealth redistribution assumes use of force. What I have said, and quite clearly too, is that I'm ok with voluntary insurance. Can you see the difference?

Out of 120 million some estimated votes, I wonder how many people died going to the poll booth. Send me the statistics piotr. Why did you twist this into "statistically you're likely to die doing anything" when all I was trying to promote was voting. There's no point to it.

You are trying to promote voting but you didn't provide any reason I could relate to. My statistics are simply to provide you with a different point of view, and possibly a common ground.

Quote from: Vyse on May 15, 2013, 07:18:36 PM

Out of 120 million some estimated votes, I wonder how many people died going to the poll booth. Send me the statistics piotr. Why did you twist this into "statistically you're likely to die doing anything" when all I was trying to promote was voting. There's no point to it.

You are trying to promote voting but you didn't provide any reason I could relate to. My statistics are simply to provide you with a different point of view, and possibly a common ground.

Voting isn't generally life and death matters, it's serious, but not as serious as car crashes. You literally turned the arguement into "don't vote because you're more likely to die then have it matter". That's not common ground, that's insanity and fear mongering.

Someone doesn't remember Puff Daddy's "VOTE or DIE!" Campaign....

Oh the horror