Borrowing vs Stealing

[Gorzo]

Good aggro answer, {Mark of Mutiny} + {Cloudshift}

Why mark of mutiny? When you cloudshift it, it loses the counter. Is it just for the extra +1 when you swing with it before you cloudshift? Just curious.

[Ghebert]

Good aggro answer, {Mark of Mutiny} + {Cloudshift}

Why mark of mutiny? When you cloudshift it, it loses the counter. Is it just for the extra +1 when you swing with it before you cloudshift? Just curious.

Steal the creature. Swing with it. After combat cloud shift it. And it stays under your control and doesn't go back to the opponent at end of turn.

[Kuberr]

Good aggro answer, {Mark of Mutiny} + {Cloudshift}

Why mark of mutiny? When you cloudshift it, it loses the counter. Is it just for the extra +1 when you swing with it before you cloudshift? Just curious.

Steal the creature. Swing with it. After combat cloud shift it. And it stays under your control and doesn't go back to the opponent at end of turn.

I'm pretty sure you have to cloud shift once he picks a creature and then he picks a new one, but keeps the old one for good.

[Gorzo]

Good aggro answer, {Mark of Mutiny} + {Cloudshift}

Why mark of mutiny? When you cloudshift it, it loses the counter. Is it just for the extra +1 when you swing with it before you cloudshift? Just curious.

Steal the creature. Swing with it. After combat cloud shift it. And it stays under your control and doesn't go back to the opponent at end of turn.

Right, but why mark of mutiny over {act of treason}, {traitorous blood}, etc, I mean. Doesn't act cost less?

Edit: never mind, on second glance, mark costs the same. I was thinking it cost {3}{R} for some reason.

[Kuberr]

*I'll just leave this here*

{Tragic Slip}

Jester you shouldn't leave banana peels near open graves. People get hurt that way 

Only a little -1/-1 boo-boo.  Unless it's not the first funeral that day...   

Besides, I'm a fan of {Sexy Devil}'s flavor text: "It's not any fun until someone loses an eye."

Up a few posts I had mentioned the combo to keep an opponents creature. Am I explaining it right? Or is it way off?

[BlackJester]

Up a few posts I had mentioned the combo to keep an opponents creature. Am I explaining it right? Or is it way off?

This one?

I'm pretty sure you have to cloud shift once he picks a creature and then he picks a new one, but keeps the old one for good.

Sorry Kubes, way off.  Ghebert was right.

Steal the creature. Swing with it. After combat cloud shift it. And it stays under your control and doesn't go back to the opponent at end of turn.

[Kuberr]

Up a few posts I had mentioned the combo to keep an opponents creature. Am I explaining it right? Or is it way off?

This one?

I'm pretty sure you have to cloud shift once he picks a creature and then he picks a new one, but keeps the old one for good.

Sorry Kubes, way off.  Ghebert was right.

Steal the creature. Swing with it. After combat cloud shift it. And it stays under your control and doesn't go back to the opponent at end of turn.

Then how does it happen with {Zelous Conscripts}?  You play her, cloudshift, in response, and you keep the original creature and get to pick a new one. Right?  Because this is how I've been playing for a while now and have never been called on it.

[BlackJester]

With the conscripts, you need to shift the creature you stole to keep it.  The delayed trigger doesn't have anything to do with ZC still being in play.  If the stolen creature is still there at the EoT (if you flicker it, it becomes a "new creature"), then you give it back.

That being said, if you flicker ZC, you can "borrow" two perms, but they will both go back.

Make sense?

[Kuberr]

With the conscripts, you need to shift the creature you stole to keep it.  The delayed trigger doesn't have anything to do with ZC still being in play.  If the stolen creature is still there at the EoT (if you flicker it, it becomes a "new creature"), then you give it back.

That being said, if you flicker ZC, you can "borrow" two perms, but they will both go back.

Make sense?

As far as timing. Does it has to be in response to stealing the creature? Or just anytime that turn?

[BlackJester]

With the conscripts, you need to shift the creature you stole to keep it.  The delayed trigger doesn't have anything to do with ZC still being in play.  If the stolen creature is still there at the EoT (if you flicker it, it becomes a "new creature"), then you give it back.

That being said, if you flicker ZC, you can "borrow" two perms, but they will both go back.

Make sense?

As far as timing. Does it has to be in response to stealing the creature? Or just anytime that turn?

After you control it, any time later that turn.  If you {Cloud Shift} their creature before the "steal" trigger resolves, nothing will be stolen.  If you CS Zealots before the steal resolves, you get two creatures and have to give them back at EoT.

[Kuberr]

Is there a reference for this? I would like to keep it handy.

[BlackJester]

http://rules.wizards.com/rulebook.aspx?game=Magic

[Kuberr]

http://rules.wizards.com/rulebook.aspx?game=Magic

I have the judge app. Thought you double checked when you called rulings. Thanks Richard.

[BlackJester]

LOLz yeah I was being a total Richard on that one.  Jokes, jokes.

I look up ones I'm unsure of.  This one I know.  Actual references...sec.

[BlackJester]

Since you have the judge app, you won't mind if I just list specific rule numbers:

603.3  The Zealot's EtB goes on the stack and stays regardless of what happens to it after.
400.7  Stolen creature becomes new creature under your control.  Also, if the creature targeted by Zealot's leaves the zone, Zealot's ability loses track of it and the ability is countered on resolution.

Also, for the record, I haven't gavelled yet. 


Resolved *gavel*  <-- Now I have.