DEBATE: Skinrender vs Rotting Fensnake

[BlackJester]

{Skinrender} vs {Rotting Fensnake}
Contention 1: aggression
I'm going to start by asserting that 5 power for the snake is more aggressive and forces your opponents to deal with it fast. The low toughness is negligible since you can reanimate it again for more beats.

[MacUser001]

I don't know what to tell you. {Skinrender} all the way. I never thought I'd see these two compared and never thought the snake would be somebodys preferred choice.

[BlackJester]

I don't know what to tell you. {Skinrender} all the way. I never thought I'd see these two compared and never thought the snake would be somebodys preferred choice.

"{Skinrender} all the way" isn't exactly a compelling argument. And yes, I'm willing to take the underdog's side.

[BlackJester]

Case one: you've done a great job clearing you opponent's board. {Skinrender}'s ability in manditory, so if you cast it on an empty board it would kill itself or one of your own creatures.

[MacUser001]

I'm sorry. I've never been the best at debates lol. I see the snake easily taken care of and it doesn't do anything. A chump block and he is gone. And it's not really that easy to reanimate him. Render can make a big difference just by hitting the table and then can be a useful blocker. Stops Titans, as you've made it a 3/3 with one of your own to block and kill it.

[Appleguru56]

(skinrender)
Contention 1: mobile removal
Skinrender itself is a removal spell that can kill or maim any creature permanently (better than most spot removals) for four mana, it effectively shrinks a larger threat and decimates smaller ones. On top of that, it can simply be used as a 3/3 that walks.
Addressing opposing contention 1
Rotting snake is a vanilla 5/1 creature that dies to a 1/1. You would require the board to be completely Empty, and the opposing hand to be free of playable cards. Otherwise it's an investment that does not pay off.

[BlackJester]

Good rebuttal!
Now, what do you mean by "not easy to reanimate"?

About the chump blocking, if you are applying lots of pressure with early zombies, hopefully you are well on your way to winning a war of attrition and you opponent will be running low on chumps. Obviously, you wouldn't attack into a bad exchange.

[MacUser001]

I have no problem keeping {Skinrender} in my hand until an opponent plays a creature. None whatsoever. A two for one.

[Appleguru56]

Addressing chump blocking
Obviously you would not attack into a imminent death, which is one more reason that rotting snake is far inferior. For four mana essentially, you have played something that will get value under the condition that your opponents plays nothing for the rest of the game. When rotting snake is forced to sit idle, the card gets no value.

[MacUser001]

Well as far as Standard play is, which is all I have experience in really, it's not common or cheap to return a card from the graveyard to your hand. And I'd still maintain if you're going to bring back a card, make it Skinrender.

I suppose the snake can be a mean blocker in itself. Can take down some baddies.

[Appleguru56]

Well as far as Standard play is, which is all I have experience in really, it's not common or cheap to return a card from the graveyard to your hand. And I'd still maintain if you're going to bring back a card, make it Skinrender.

I suppose the snake can be a mean blocker in itself. Can take down some baddies.

Addressing blockers
It may stop attacks from large(r) creatures, but it still will not block smaller creatures well. Assuming they do not play any removal. Aside from that, the real threats that you should fear are bigger than five toughness

[BlackJester]

Well as far as Standard play is, which is all I have experience in really, it's not common or cheap to return a card from the graveyard to your hand.
I suppose the snake can be a mean blocker in itself. Can take down some baddies.

{Ghoulcaller's Chant}
{Ghoulraiser}

Also, to comment on Apple's point, if youre hitting the four drop on turn four, unless they have ramp, you wont be targeting a Titan.

[MacUser001]

Well sure, if you're playing a Zombie deck it becomes easier to return. Which limits the snake even more.

[BlackJester]

Which limits the snake even more.

Why is that?  It IS a zombie snake.

[cltrn81]

Snake would pwn if he had trample but I know a hypothetical argument is no argument.  I would use him if he had regen like the {spined fluke} but he does not.  My point is that an opponent just needs to leave a little 1/1 and your 4 drop snake is useless.