Upcoming Rules Changes at PT: Origins

Started by Remillo, June 29, 2015, 11:41:56 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Remillo

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/changes-starting-pro-tour-magic-origins-2015-06-29

TL:DR: At Pro Tour Origins, they're going to test out a new mulligan rule, where if you take a mulligan, you're allowed to Scry 1 before the game begins after you keep your hand.  This is being TESTED at the PT and will NOT be used in regular tournaments until further announced.

Coverage video may now be used in aiding judge investigations at the Head Judge's discretion.

Players on camera will be asked to keep their board within a standard layout to keep it similar across matches (and this does include Lands in back)

MuggyWuggy

Kinda OP IMO

If not playable 7, mull, scry 1... Jeeeeeez

That's a pretty good way to setup for Aggro decks

Remillo

The idea is that it will cut some of the variance out, so that games aren't just non-games due to craptastic mulligans

Phoenix X30


the_intelligentleman

{Delver of Secrets} on the play likes. Sure, I like always flipping my Delver's on turn two.

Remillo

Quote from: bravado883 on June 29, 2015, 12:48:50 PM
Doesn't set up Delver. You mull, look at top card, if you keep you draw 6. You still don't know the first card of your first draw step.

The Scry is done after you decide to keep a hand.  You don't get to Scry during the mulligan process, but after it's done.

MuggyWuggy

It will spice up pro tour so featured matches don't have a 1 sided game due to magic being magic.

MuggyWuggy

Land check is huge
Keep 2 lander all day

Also
Lol @
Lands must be at the bottom

Kaylesh

Quote from: ConanEdo on June 29, 2015, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on June 29, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
Land check is huge
Keep 2 lander all day

Also
Lol @
Lands must be at the bottom
Sure, but then you get people saying combo is going to be dumb or implying you intentionally mull to set up Delver flip...
They can imply all they want. It's legit to take a mulligan to better your game. Or even take one if you've got the perfect hand.
As for the enforcement of a certain setup, I think it's over the top. You can already enforce the rules that your opponent has to be able to verify your every action. If your opponent is confused by a different setup in such a way that it's affecting his play, he can have play stopped to verify.
(Though I think at pro level you shouldn't be affected at all)

Quote from: Taysby on June 29, 2015, 01:02:10 PM
Who was it that got a game loss from "drawing a card" when he shouldn't even though he didn't, it was just physically touching his hand but not in his "hand"?

Yeah, he's probably mad.  Now they /can/ look at the video footage.
However, it was physically touching his hand, so as per game rules drawn. It didn't matter they could backtrack to which card it was.
And on the other hand, he'd have gotten a grv for playing two lands before.

Remillo

Quote from: Kaylesh on June 29, 2015, 02:09:03 PM
As for the enforcement of a certain setup, I think it's over the top. You can already enforce the rules that your opponent has to be able to verify your every action. If your opponent is confused by a different setup in such a way that it's affecting his play, he can have play stopped to verify.
(Though I think at pro level you shouldn't be affected at all)

It's more for the viewers than anything else.  Keeping everything in the same relative location helps viewers keep track of what is going on across matches.  None of the pros will mind switching it up if asked.

Kaylesh

Quote from: Remillo on June 29, 2015, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: Kaylesh on June 29, 2015, 02:09:03 PM
As for the enforcement of a certain setup, I think it's over the top. You can already enforce the rules that your opponent has to be able to verify your every action. If your opponent is confused by a different setup in such a way that it's affecting his play, he can have play stopped to verify.
(Though I think at pro level you shouldn't be affected at all)

It's more for the viewers than anything else.  Keeping everything in the same relative location helps viewers keep track of what is going on across matches.  None of the pros will mind switching it up if asked.
There was one incident regarding layout in pt DTK right?
But I can understand it will be consistent for the viewers, though in all likelihood the people watching would not have too much of a problem with it.

Kaalia with haste

Quote from: Taysby on June 29, 2015, 01:02:10 PM
Who was it that got a game loss from "drawing a card" when he shouldn't even though he didn't, it was just physically touching his hand but not in his "hand"?

Yeah, he's probably mad.  Now they /can/ look at the video footage.
Patrick chapin

particle

Lands in back! Yes. Otherwise this seems bad. Allowing judges to look at the video seems so unfair to everyone who is not playing on camera. The fact that a head judge at a star city games event can look at the tape, when the majority of players getting taped are scg pros, is totally ridiculous. I think the scry is fine, should make for more games where you actually get to play magic. I don't think too many people will force mulligans just to get a scry.

DimirOverlord1300

It's not a legitimate argument to say that reviewing videos for rulings is favoring pros. If you are in the feature match, good for you, and if something goes wrong, why the hell wouldn't you want to do whatever you can do to make sure the ruling is correct? It's not favoring pros, it's just saying "well if we have this available to us, why aren't we going to use it?"

particle

Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on June 30, 2015, 01:10:12 PM
It's not a legitimate argument to say that reviewing videos for rulings is favoring pros. If you are in the feature match, good for you, and if something goes wrong, why the hell wouldn't you want to do whatever you can do to make sure the ruling is correct? It's not favoring pros, it's just saying "well if we have this available to us, why aren't we going to use it?"

It is a legitimate argument. If you have a significantly higher likelihood to be in the feature match, then you have a benefit that I don't (instant replay). Even if there was some way that we could make it so everyone had an equal chance of being in the feature match that still wouldn't make it fair (although it would be less unfair). The only way for it to be fair is if every competitive game is on video and can be held to the same standard. And this obviously cannot happen.

Edit: and to assume that getting to the feature match means you earned your spot there and "good for you" is just misinformed. Star city games doesn't randomly choose people to be in the feature match. It chooses specific people based on viewers and other factors. It's not just the 1 seed versus the 2 seed in their feature matches.