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[LinkCelestrial]

That hardly applies when he's nice enough to lend decks so Legacy can happen. Just saying.

A lot of the time this debate comes down to pride and entitlement.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

That hardly applies when he's nice enough to lend decks so Legacy can happen. Just saying.

A lot of the time this debate comes down to pride and entitlement.

It most certainly does apply. Why should someone who is not frends with Taysby (this is by no means meant for hating on Taysby, he just happens to be the person that mentioned this) be unable to play with the cards they want when someone who is friends with someone who owns 4 copies is? Neither of them own the cards in question. In actual fact, the amout  of cards in question dont even exist. Being someone Taysby would lend a deck to shouldnt be the required entry level to magic. Essentially what you are saying is that Taysby would be allowed to proxy off the entire deck a few times, give them to a few friends so they can all play in an event together, juse because he owns a playset of all the cards? Whether this is the difference between the game happening or not is completely irrelevant.

Am I 'entitled' because I paid for my cards and dont like the idea of people printing theirs for the same benefit?

Am I too proud because I wont proxy cards?

Plus the fact that it is flat out against the rules of the game, I think it is a bit rich to say I am the one with the problem here.

[griffin131]

I'm loaning out decks so legacy can actually happen. I would buy the cards if needed, but owning 12 LEDs is stupid.

Which is worse.
What you're doing right now is against the DCI rules and can cause major problems if you're playing sanctioned events.
If Legacy can't happen because there aren't enough Legacy players, too bad.
Is it okay if I proxy 4 Snapcasters in Modern because my friend has them?
What about Raptors in standard - I don't want to pay for a playset that are going to be rotating soon - I'll just proxy them.

Stop making up excuses, just admit you're cheating (if it's sanctioned - if it's not I literally couldn't care less).

[LinkCelestrial]

That hardly applies when he's nice enough to lend decks so Legacy can happen. Just saying.

A lot of the time this debate comes down to pride and entitlement.

It most certainly does apply. Why should someone who is not frends with Taysby (this is by no means meant for hating on Taysby, he just happens to be the person that mentioned this) be unable to play with the cards they want when someone who is friends with someone who owns 4 copies is? Neither of them own the cards in question. In actual fact, the amout  of cards in question dont even exist. Being someone Taysby would lend a deck to shouldnt be the required entry level to magic. Essentially what you are saying is that Taysby would be allowed to proxy off the entire deck a few times, give them to a few friends so they can all play in an event together, juse because he owns a playset of all the cards? Whether this is the difference between the game happening or not is completely irrelevant.

Am I 'entitled' because I paid for my cards and dont like the idea of people printing theirs for the same benefit?

Am I too proud because I wont proxy cards?

Plus the fact that it is flat out against the rules of the game, I think it is a bit rich to say I am the one with the problem here.

That's assuming some pretty interesting things about Taysby. But I'm really not interested in debating this. Everyone has their own opinion. I think people get way too uppity.

Are you completely against Untap.In and such as well?

I already said it's my opinion that at a competitive level you ought to have everything unless it's a LGS opening up a format to new players (as a non sanctioned event).

[Falcon182]

That hardly applies when he's nice enough to lend decks so Legacy can happen. Just saying.

A lot of the time this debate comes down to pride and entitlement.

It most certainly does apply. Why should someone who is not frends with Taysby (this is by no means meant for hating on Taysby, he just happens to be the person that mentioned this) be unable to play with the cards they want when someone who is friends with someone who owns 4 copies is? Neither of them own the cards in question. In actual fact, the amout  of cards in question dont even exist. Being someone Taysby would lend a deck to shouldnt be the required entry level to magic. Essentially what you are saying is that Taysby would be allowed to proxy off the entire deck a few times, give them to a few friends so they can all play in an event together, juse because he owns a playset of all the cards? Whether this is the difference between the game happening or not is completely irrelevant.

Am I 'entitled' because I paid for my cards and dont like the idea of people printing theirs for the same benefit?

Am I too proud because I wont proxy cards?

Plus the fact that it is flat out against the rules of the game, I think it is a bit rich to say I am the one with the problem here.

That's assuming some pretty interesting things about Taysby. But I'm really not interested in debating this. Everyone has their own opinion. I think people get way too uppity.

Are you completely against Untap.In and such as well?

I already said it's my opinion that at a competitive level you ought to have everything unless it's a LGS opening up a format to new players (as a non sanctioned event).

It must not be sanctioned. Maybe they do it on Friday and call if FNM. Stores can host casual events whenever and however they want, including allowing proxies and can give out FNM promos at their discretion.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

That hardly applies when he's nice enough to lend decks so Legacy can happen. Just saying.

A lot of the time this debate comes down to pride and entitlement.

It most certainly does apply. Why should someone who is not frends with Taysby (this is by no means meant for hating on Taysby, he just happens to be the person that mentioned this) be unable to play with the cards they want when someone who is friends with someone who owns 4 copies is? Neither of them own the cards in question. In actual fact, the amout  of cards in question dont even exist. Being someone Taysby would lend a deck to shouldnt be the required entry level to magic. Essentially what you are saying is that Taysby would be allowed to proxy off the entire deck a few times, give them to a few friends so they can all play in an event together, juse because he owns a playset of all the cards? Whether this is the difference between the game happening or not is completely irrelevant.

Am I 'entitled' because I paid for my cards and dont like the idea of people printing theirs for the same benefit?

Am I too proud because I wont proxy cards?

Plus the fact that it is flat out against the rules of the game, I think it is a bit rich to say I am the one with the problem here.

That's assuming some pretty interesting things about Taysby. But I'm really not interested in debating this. Everyone has their own opinion. I think people get way too uppity.

Are you completely against Untap.In and such as well?

I already said it's my opinion that at a competitive level you ought to have everything unless it's a LGS opening up a format to new players (as a non sanctioned event).

I do get a bit passionate at times, I apologize if it comes across as offensive. It stems from years of witnessing (in both magic and life) people who are fine with following the rules, until bending them becomes beneficial for them and detrimental to others. I absolutely despise this, and sometimes get carried away.

I am fine with untap and cockatrice etc, because by definition they are non sanctioned and a great tool for playtestinflg etc. As soon as a competitive environment is introduced, then as far as I am concerned those types of things are also unacceptible.

The biggest issue I had was proxies being allowed in a sanctioned event because (insert reason here). There is absolutely no place for proxies in a competitive environment  (which includes FNM) ever. This applies whether you own 1, 4, or 400 of a card, and regardless of how many people would otherwise play the event. This is not my opinion, but a default as per the rules of the game. I just can't comprehend how anyone can think the rules can ever not apply to them, that is all.

[LinkCelestrial]

I totally agree with you about competitive magic not allowing proxies. I do agree with a marker card for your {Black Lotus} but as soon as it hits the table you put the real thing out in its triple sleeve.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

I totally agree with you about competitive magic not allowing proxies. I do agree with a marker card for your {Black Lotus} but as soon as it hits the table you put the real thing out in its triple sleeve.

Yeah i forgot to mention that. It is ok to do it for flip cards I dont see why it cant be used in that instance. But the real card must be used once it becomes a permanent. It cant be sitting in your wall safe at home, it must be there to be used. I am not sure of the official rules when it comes to that, but it certainly doesnt violate my (sometimes too) high ethics.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

I don't pick and choose who I loan them out to, so you don't have to be my friend. Nor am I making the same deck, I'm making a variety. The head judge said that would be ok to have legacy fnm with prize support and the promo. Will I eventually get the real cards if no one else starts building decks?  Yes, but very slowly.

Just so you know, I wasnt having a go at you Taysby. I think its great you are trying to grow your community. You were the one who brought it up thats why i used you in my example.

[griffin131]

I don't pick and choose who I loan them out to, so you don't have to be my friend. Nor am I making the same deck, I'm making a variety. The head judge said that would be ok to have legacy fnm with prize support and the promo. Will I eventually get the real cards if no one else starts building decks?  Yes, but very slowly.

Your head judge is quite wrong.
If someone reports your store to the DCI there will be issues if the store is reporting the results as a DCI sanctioned event.

And you're completely missing the point, but that's okay.