Patrick Chapin

[particle]

There was also the round 6 or 7 guy who returned his Scry land back to his hand so he could play it again.

Yea but that wasn't Patrick "the innovator" Chapin

[MuggyWuggy]

Pro tour = people good at card tricks, not just decks and magic

[particle]

If you watch the video, the order of the cards never change--after his opponent calls him on it he reveals the card he clearly drew off the Ajani. He makes this argument to the judge but it doesn't fly since the only person who could legally corroborate (since they can't look at the video) is the opponent. I don't disagree with the ruling, but that's what really sucks--everyone, including Chapin's opponent, knew what Chapin drew.

All this talk of Chapin; did anyone see that Stephen Speck got DQ'd early on Day 2 for hiding an optimal 7 card opening hand and presenting 53? WTF?

Even if his opponent said yes I know he drew it off the ajani, he still would have received a game loss. He still "drew a card" when he wasn't legally allowed to. His opponent basically had nothing to do with this situation, except for the potential to ask for a downgrade into a warning.

[particle]

I could be wrong, but I thought there was a rule that lets it be downgraded to a warning if the opponent knew the whole hand and the game state was reparable. Not a judge, I just thought I remembered hearing that somewhere (in the video maybe?). My understanding is that it's a game loss because there's technically no way to know whether he drew a legal card.

There is no way his opponent could let it be downgraded to a warning without a judges approval. They opponent could ask for a downgrade for whatever reason they see fit, like they knew all the cards in chapin's hand, but the judge would still have the final say.

[particle]

I'm not saying the opponent has any say over the ruling. But the rules say, for example, that the judge has the authority to downgrade the penalty to a warning if, say, the card was drawn into an empty hand. At that point, even though he still "illegally drew an extra card," it's very easy to know exactly what card he drew. Assuming the card is a legal target, this isn't as big a deal and the penalty can be downgraded.

That was Chapin's argument--my opponent knows all the other cards in my hand, so the only new one HAS to be the one I drew, which was a legal target, and I should therefore only get a warning.

That was one of his arguments. He also stated he hadn't drawn the card because he had not picked up all the cards together as a hand. This  was obviously a semantics argument about cards in hand vs. cards in "hand."

I still respect the innovator a ton and know he's one of the G.O.A.T's, but that doesn't mean he's immune to mistakes and/or should get special treatment just because it was being recorded.

And in terms of the "my opponent should have known the rest of my hand because they were revealed from my {courser of kruphix} earlier" seems flawed imo. This was a long intense game, and to say my opponent had to remember these cards and/or write them down just doesn't make sense. Is it possible my opponent knew my hand, yes. Can I say for sure that they knew? Unlikely.

[Kaylesh]

I'm going to be blunt because I have had a crappy morning, Pro players don't get to make amateur mistakes, and if is a question of is it an amateur mistake or intentional cheating and there is money on the line then I'm not sorry, but you don't get oops-es...

That's what we can take away from this one. I agree though. This is highest level magic.

[DrainCleaner]

I can't believe nobodys talking about how he played 2 lands in 1 turn in the same game

[Dsx Cherno]

Looks like it's a very clear message from the judges. If you want to compete at the highest level, alongside the greatest players, you will not be given any slack. Know your game, and know proper procedures.

On that note, someone should do weekly articles on how to compete at the highest level, including etiquette, properly working through procedures and phases, and ensuring that newer players and people starting to compete above LGS level can do so properly and effectively.

[Kaylesh]

I can't believe nobodys talking about how he played 2 lands in 1 turn in the same game

But he had Courser out in the same game, that's legit right :p

Didn't even know. Guess he was just too tired to play properly. Sloppy judging for not calling that though.

I can't find the patience to watch a stream, I prefer playing to watching. So I gotta go by what ppl here (and reddit to lesser extend) say about it. But since I am interested in judging and rulings, this sort of thing peaks my interest.

[Remillo]

People need to realize two things:
1) Just because Patrick Chapin is a beloved and well respected member of the community doesn't mean anything.  All that matters is that someone made a play mistake, both with the card not being revealed off of Ajani and the playing of the second land.  As judges, we disregard anything we know about the player and just look at the situation at hand.  Was an Infraction committed, and what is the proper penalty. 

2) This isn't FNM.  It's also not Day 1 at a GP or an SCG Open.  This is the Pro Tour.  This is what is handled at Professional Rules Enforcement Level, where there is absolutely no leeway for sloppy play.  If you make a mistake and your opponent calls you on it, that's what happens.  Your play at Professional has to be airtight.  Money is on the line and there's no room for error.

Long story short: Yes, Chapin's a cool guy, but the penalty given was the correct one.  If someone unknown had done that on camera, tons of viewers would have probably been on their throat about it.  Just because he's a celebrity doesn't excuse him for sloppy play.

[MuggyWuggy]

People also believe OJ didn't kill Nicole

Fanboys.

[Thetrufflehunter]

A really good read from Cedric on the topic.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30641_On-Patrick-Chapin-Round-Six-And-The-Importance-Of-First-Impressions.html

[particle]

{Cedric Phillips} of star city games commentary has posted a poignant, sad, true response to this mess. Here it is:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30641_On-Patrick-Chapin-Round-Six-And-The-Importance-Of-First-Impressions.html

[Thetrufflehunter]

{Cedric Phillips} of star city games commentary has posted a poignant, sad, true response to this mess. Here it is:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30641_On-Patrick-Chapin-Round-Six-And-The-Importance-Of-First-Impressions.html

9 second gap.

[DrainCleaner]

He still says nothing about the lands