Death's Shadow and Evolve

[Jamloops]

Quick question that I can't find the answer to,

I have 20 life.
I have a low lvl creature with evolve on the field.
I cast [Death's Shadow]
Does my creature evolve?

My thinking is that DS would ETB as a 13/13 which would trigger evolve, then be removed as a state based action when the -20/-20 is applied but I'm unsure.
Help?

[Ekann1]

{Deaths Shadow}

[Ekann1]

I'm not positive, but I know that ability is not a trigger, it's a static ability. And here's a Gatherer ruling. So you don't get the evolve.

3/1/2010   If your life total is 13 or greater (and nothing else is boosting Death's Shadow's toughness), Death's Shadow is put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action.

[DrainCleaner]

The {Death's Shadow} will enter the battlefield as a -7/-7. His ability is a static ability. It applies at all times that the card is in play.

[particle]

Quick question that I can't find the answer to,

I have 20 life.
I have a low lvl creature with evolve on the field.
I cast [Death's Shadow]
Does my creature evolve?

My thinking is that DS would ETB as a 13/13 which would trigger evolve, then be removed as a state based action when the -20/-20 is applied but I'm unsure.
Help?

Note that even your logic doesn't work in magic. If there's state based actions and triggers that both want to happen, state based will always win. Triggers use the stack and requires players to have priority for them to be put on the stack. State based actions happen before any player would receive priority.

[Munchlax]

The {Death's Shadow} will enter the battlefield as a -7/-7. His ability is a static ability. It applies at all times that the card is in play.

Not as long as it's in play. It is at all times in every possible place. If you have 20 life and he's in your hand he's still a -7/-7. If he's in your graveyard he is a -7/-7. If he is in your library he is a -7/-7. Not just in play

[mickeven]

The {Death's Shadow} will enter the battlefield as a -7/-7. His ability is a static ability. It applies at all times that the card is in play.

Not as long as it's in play. It is at all times in every possible place. If you have 20 life and he's in your hand he's still a -7/-7. If he's in your graveyard he is a -7/-7. If he is in your library he is a -7/-7. Not just in play

are we sure about this? it doesnt say "DS power and toughness equals 13 minus your life total". It says "it gets" as an ability, which only works on the battlefield.

[particle]

The {Death's Shadow} will enter the battlefield as a -7/-7. His ability is a static ability. It applies at all times that the card is in play.

Not as long as it's in play. It is at all times in every possible place. If you have 20 life and he's in your hand he's still a -7/-7. If he's in your graveyard he is a -7/-7. If he is in your library he is a -7/-7. Not just in play

are we sure about this? it doesnt say "DS power and toughness equals 13 minus your life total". It says "it gets" as an ability, which only works on the battlefield.

you are correct. His -x is only relevant on the field. In other zones, his text doesn't matter and he is a 13/13.

Edit: which is why he is a great target for {varolz, the scar-striped} scavenge ability. 1 mana 13 counters.

[particle]

If his P/T were stars then he would be his size everywhere, but abilities don't apply when not on the field and he has hard listed numbers so yes, he triggers evolve

Not if he dies instantly...

[particle]

It enters with toughness below zero and dies. State based actions take effect immediately there is not point when he's a 13/13 and then loses toughness.

[Remillo]

It enters with toughness below zero and dies. State based actions take effect immediately there is not point when he's a 13/13 and then loses toughness.

Call me a mistaken llama but his ability that shrinks him does not kick in until he reaches the battlefield, which THEN kills him as a state based check.

It will still enter AS a -7/-7.  There's not point where it's on the battlefield where that ability is not active.  When something like evolve checks for the power and toughness of a creature that just entered to know if it needs to trigger, you can think of it like this:
1) Did a creature enter the battlefield?
2) Now that it's on the field, what is it's power/toughness?

Static effects that change P/T, like {Gaea's Anthem}, effect the P/T of creatures entering.  If you have an Anthem and a 3/3 resolves, it'll enter as a 4/4 and something like {Temur Ascendancy} will see it and trigger.

[particle]

It enters with toughness below zero and dies. State based actions take effect immediately there is not point when he's a 13/13 and then loses toughness.

Call me a mistaken llama but his ability that shrinks him does not kick in until he reaches the battlefield, which THEN kills him as a state based check.

Right but he never his on the battlefield with the ability not yet affecting him. As soon as he hits his power is affected. The field won't see a 13/13 hit and then get shrunk. It'll see the final product.

[mickeven]

I imagining this as an arena. Creature is introduced by anouncer and as soon as its toe enters the battlefield it loses all power and toughness and dies. theres no period where it walks arounds the arena dancing to its intro song and then when the song stops it dies. it just dies instantly almost as if it entered dead

[Jamloops]

Hmm yeah, I was uncertain because I knew that the -x/-x didn't affect it in the graveyard, but that does make sense to me.
I'm building an evolve/scavenge deck and wanted to be sure on the rulings before putting it on the table,

Thanks for the help!

[Dsx Cherno]

On that note, it does still count for entering the battlefield. So while it won't trigger Evolve, because it's a negative, it still triggers any ETB triggers that just ask if a creature entered.