Humble Defector

[Kaylesh]

But that's where I have the confusion.  The ability is on the stack and resolving, which is part of the exception.  I understood the first rule to mean that if the ability had targeted the {Humble Defector}, the targeting would be negated - but since the ability does not target the defector it would resolve as normal when you draw the two cards as an exception under the second rule.

But it's not mid resolving when you cast {cloudshift}. It hasn't started to resolve at all. Then once cloudshift fully resolves, after players pass priority, the ability would resolve. The rule your quoting would only be able to find the defector if something happened during that last step where the ability is resolving.

This rule for abilities like: flicker this creature, then put two +1/+1 counters on it. (Imagined random ability here). Without the exception, the second part would do nothing.

[Nfidel2k]

But that's where I have the confusion.  The ability is on the stack and resolving, which is part of the exception.  I understood the first rule to mean that if the ability had targeted the {Humble Defector}, the targeting would be negated - but since the ability does not target the defector it would resolve as normal when you draw the two cards as an exception under the second rule.

But it's not mid resolving when you cast {cloudshift}. It hasn't started to resolve at all. Then once cloudshift fully resolves, after players pass priority, the ability would resolve. The rule your quoting would only be able to find the defector if something happened during that last step where the ability is resolving.

This rule for abilities like: flicker this creature, then put two +1/+1 counters on it. (Imagined random ability here). Without the exception, the second part would do nothing.

Yeah, I realized after he explained it that the exception is basically why {cloudshift}  can return the card to the battlefield.  Thanks

[mickeven]

Got it. thanks dude. Now, would it be able to work with  {Conjurer's Closet}? How would you time that?

That's interesting. Can you activate something before a triggered ability goes off? Because you can't response to it, otherwise that would resolve in the wrong order. I feel like that wouldn't work unless you're allowed to delay single triggered events. Now if you had two end step triggers, you could probably tap defector in response to the first, then let closet stack, then start eating your pancakes.

that makes sense. i guess 2 Closets would work it this instance. With the first one exile some creature, in response to that tap the Defector, and then use the second Closet on the Defector.

[Nfidel2k]

Got it. thanks dude. Now, would it be able to work with  {Conjurer's Closet}? How would you time that?

That's interesting. Can you activate something before a triggered ability goes off? Because you can't response to it, otherwise that would resolve in the wrong order. I feel like that wouldn't work unless you're allowed to delay single triggered events. Now if you had two end step triggers, you could probably tap defector in response to the first, then let closet stack, then start eating your pancakes.

that makes sense. i guess 2 Closets would work it this instance. With the first one exile some creature, in response to that tap the Defector, and then use the second Closet on the Defector.

Actually two wouldn't make a difference.  You would have to react to the closet trigger (targeting your defector) by activating the humble defector's ability.

[Kaylesh]

But that's where I have the confusion.  The ability is on the stack and resolving, which is part of the exception.  I understood the first rule to mean that if the ability had targeted the {Humble Defector}, the targeting would be negated - but since the ability does not target the defector it would resolve as normal when you draw the two cards as an exception under the second rule.

But it's not mid resolving when you cast {cloudshift}. It hasn't started to resolve at all. Then once cloudshift fully resolves, after players pass priority, the ability would resolve. The rule your quoting would only be able to find the defector if something happened during that last step where the ability is resolving.

This rule for abilities like: flicker this creature, then put two +1/+1 counters on it. (Imagined random ability here). Without the exception, the second part would do nothing.

Yeah, I realized after he explained it that the exception is basically why {cloudshift}  can return the card to the battlefield.  Thanks

True. Only realized that {cloudshift} is the easiest example just now +1 on you.

[mickeven]

Not to turn this into a combo thread or beat the dead-eye horse but would {Deadeye Navigator} Ability work here?

Tap defector, pay deadeye's ability to go poof and still get cards?

yeah. it would be the same as the Cloudshift. nice catch! thats a great combo!