Modern burn question

[Boomer17]

do u guys think {vexing devil} has a place with {goblin guide} and swift spear

[Hunteroffire9]

I think at this point in time going 4x goblin 4x swift is really what burn should do. vexing was outclassed by monastery, and if you are considering more creatures in your build you want to play cards that give you reach (grim lavamancer), or even better eidolon of the great revel, I think 4 eiodlon, 4 guide, 4 swift might be the standard for now, or maybe swift is not the right creature for burn, time will tell.

[Boomer17]

Ya I'm thinking of dumping the vexing and picking up the revels just wonder how much that will hurt me as well. Here's what I'm thinking.

X4 swift spear
X4 goblin guide
X4 young pyro

And using the revels in sode board against jeskai combo and storm I think revel will punish those builds

[LinkCelestrial]

Excuse the noobness, I have some questions.

Why not {Chandra's Phoenix}?

What about {Guttersnipe}?

I'd personally say that {Monastery Swiftspear} isn't as good as {Vexing Devil}. I can't see {Monastery Swiftspear} landing four a turn consistently. But that's just me. I am thinking that it's better than {Goblin Guide}. I mean all the win none of the drawbacks?

[Remillo]

Excuse the noobness, I have some questions.

Why not {Chandra's Phoenix}?

What about {Guttersnipe}?

I'd personally say that {Monastery Swiftspear} isn't as good as {Vexing Devil}. I can't see {Monastery Swiftspear} landing four a turn consistently. But that's just me. I am thinking that it's better than {Goblin Guide}. I mean all the win none of the drawbacks?

Think of it this way - if your opponent takes, your Devil is just a 4-damage burn spell.  If they don't take the four, you basically have them use a Path or a Bolt on it so that it doesn't them every turn.  While Goblin Guide gives away tempo, it also gains you information and starts swinging hard and fast, racking up tangible amounts of damage with minimal mana investment.  Swiftspear also starts getting in early without any tempo loss, although it has one less power than Guide.  What makes it good, though, is that it rewards you for doing what your deck already likes to do, which is casting burn spells.  Over the course of two turns, either a Swiftspear or a Guide can easily match or out-pace what a Turn 1 Devil could produce (eating Removal, or being a Flame Slash to the face)

[LinkCelestrial]

Excuse the noobness, I have some questions.

Why not {Chandra's Phoenix}?

What about {Guttersnipe}?

I'd personally say that {Monastery Swiftspear} isn't as good as {Vexing Devil}. I can't see {Monastery Swiftspear} landing four a turn consistently. But that's just me. I am thinking that it's better than {Goblin Guide}. I mean all the win none of the drawbacks?

Think of it this way - if your opponent takes, your Devil is just a 4-damage burn spell.  If they don't take the four, you basically have them use a Path or a Bolt on it so that it doesn't them every turn.  While Goblin Guide gives away tempo, it also gains you information and starts swinging hard and fast, racking up tangible amounts of damage with minimal mana investment.  Swiftspear also starts getting in early without any tempo loss, although it has one less power than Guide.  What makes it good, though, is that it rewards you for doing what your deck already likes to do, which is casting burn spells.  Over the course of two turns, either a Swiftspear or a Guide can easily match or out-pace what a Turn 1 Devil could produce (eating Removal, or being a Flame Slash to the face)

{Goblin Guide} and {Monastery Swiftspear} are removable too ya know. But I see what you're saying and agree.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

First: if you aren't playing {Eidolon of the Great Revel} in your burn deck, you aren't playing a competitive burn deck. (Period)* After that, we look at {Grim Lavamancer}, {Young Pyromancer}, {Monastery Swiftspear} and {Goblin Guide}.
-Pyromancer is almost too slow for burn, it costs your entire turn 2, and then only attacks for 2 on turn 3.
-Lavamancer is still good and is able to slow down creature decks that try to race you.
-Taylor Swiftspear is probably the best option, because it is so explosive (1 damage turn 1, easily 3 on turn 2, the card is just insane).
-{Goblin Guide} is good, but I still think that Swiftspear has outclassed Guide at this point.


*Obviously there are probably some obscure cornercase decks, but it really is what makes it a deck.

[LinkCelestrial]

Woah I've been reading {Eidelon of the Great Revel} wrong for...well...ever. I thought it was CMC 3 or /greater/. How on earth is it good? Please someone explain.

[Boomer17]

First: if you aren't playing {Eidolon of the Great Revel} in your burn deck, you aren't playing a competitive burn deck. (Period)* After that, we look at {Grim Lavamancer}, {Young Pyromancer}, {Monastery Swiftspear} and {Goblin Guide}.
-Pyromancer is almost too slow for burn, it costs your entire turn 2, and then only attacks for 2 on turn 3.
-Lavamancer is still good and is able to slow down creature decks that try to race you.
-Taylor Swiftspear is probably the best option, because it is so explosive (1 damage turn 1, easily 3 on turn 2, the card is just insane).
-{Goblin Guide} is good, but I still think that Swiftspear has outclassed Guide at this point.


*Obviously there are probably some obscure cornercase decks, but it really is what makes it a deck.

[MuggyWuggy]

Woah I've been reading {Eidelon of the Great Revel} wrong for...well...ever. I thought it was CMC 3 or /greater/. How on earth is it good? Please someone explain.

Lets both burn alive in the fire! Except I get lightning helix for a lil life gain too

[InfinitiveDivinity]

Woah I've been reading {Eidelon of the Great Revel} wrong for...well...ever. I thought it was CMC 3 or /greater/. How on earth is it good? Please someone explain.

Lets both burn alive in the fire! Except I get lightning helix for a lil life gain too

The double edge in Modern is a lot sharper on their end.

[blackychan1]

Woah I've been reading {Eidelon of the Great Revel} wrong for...well...ever. I thought it was CMC 3 or /greater/. How on earth is it good? Please someone explain.

80% of spells cast in modern are 0-3 mana. So although you take damage from your burn spells, they are taking damage FROM your burn spells AND FOR every spell they cast. This puts a very short timer on their game and makes it harder for them to stabilize.
I watched a Burn vs Burn game 1, where each player had an eidolon on the field turn 2... The game lasted 4 turns...

[LinkCelestrial]

I get it. It's speeding up the game and that's a huge deal for burn. Also why {Sulfuric Vortex} works.

[cltrn81]

Eidelon also gots around {leyline of sanctity}

I took my guides out to add swiftspear.  I still run vexing devil because a 4 damage bolt or 4 power creature for 1 mana will always be good.

[Aladormax]

I can see guides sorta dropping as it is the easiest replacement for swiftspear. I also never managed to get any more than the one for EDH, so it isn't too hrd on me to change the deck at all.