Monday, August 25th

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

This mirrors my current feelings on the Reserve list: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/rule-of-law-keeping-the-reserve-list/

Yeah, that sums up most arguments for the Reserved List, an outdated argument that hinges on, "too bad for you and the format, I like owning expensive cards "

The Reserved List should be abolished and they should print paper Legacy Masters at $25 (or so) a pop. This could lower some prices slightly, brings in millions, and give newer players a chance to own some of the ABUR lands (but keep the Power under a Reserved List).

Edit: OR take the cards that are on the Reserved List and print barely but strictly worse cards of those on the Reserved List (obviously at a lower MSRP). For example, ABUR lands that deal 1 damage to you when they ETB.

They already did the second thing. They're called Shock Lands.

Read that again. The card would be better than shocklands, which are practically unplayable in Legacy. The other downside the lands could have could be your opponent gains 1 life when they ETB.

[Dudecore]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

[DirtyMustachio]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Unless there is such a power creep they print enough new cards that are relevant and rare in power/rarity to be worth trading into legacy staples.

[Dudecore]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Unless they're is such a power creep they print enough new cards that are relevant and rare in power/rarity to be worth trading into legacy staples.

This would be more like it. Tons and tons of Legacy decks are comprised of NWO-era cards. {Deathrite Shaman}, {Delver of Secrets}, {Abrupt Decay}. Looking up and down those lists, except the mana base, most of them are reprintable cards. No one is constantly crying about a {Force of Will} mass-reprint, it's not on the reserve list and is a format staple. If the mana base of every deck not extremely greedy with absolutely no drawbacks is what ruins Legacy, then that would be a real shame.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Exactly, completely unrealistic. The golf clubs analogy just shows how out of touch the author is with real life. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars to waste on golf clubs, let alone Magic cards. This isn't a case of, "well everyone has to make some sacrifices, " this is a case of, "well you don't eat for the next 8 months, you might be able to afford legacy." Wizards could break the promise at any point. The easiest way to do this is a to an "unaffiliated" company print the cards, they choose not to because they prefer to please the collectors over the players.

[Kaworu, the Fifth Child]

Damn I wanted to play Lego too

[Dudecore]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Exactly, completely unrealistic. The golf clubs analogy just shows how out of touch the author is with real life. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars to waste on golf clubs, let alone Magic cards. This isn't a case of, "well everyone has to make some sacrifices, " this is a case of, "well you don't eat for the next 8 months, you might be able to afford legacy." Wizards could break the promise at any point. The easiest way to do this is a to an "unaffiliated" company print the cards, they choose not to because they prefer to please the collectors over the players.

The golf club analogy is more to show that if you want the best Golf clubs - there is a price for them. Playing high level legacy requires high level cards. Playing for fun with your buddies you can use Shocklands, just like you can buy cheaper golf clubs that are good, but not the best. Wizards could break that promise at any point, and the point they do decide to break it is the point it's not worth believing anything they have to say.

[griffin131]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Exactly, completely unrealistic. The golf clubs analogy just shows how out of touch the author is with real life. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars to waste on golf clubs, let alone Magic cards. This isn't a case of, "well everyone has to make some sacrifices, " this is a case of, "well you don't eat for the next 8 months, you might be able to afford legacy." Wizards could break the promise at any point. The easiest way to do this is a to an "unaffiliated" company print the cards, they choose not to because they prefer to please the collectors over the players.

It's actually a great analogy.
Do you have to have top of the line golf clubs to play golf?  No, they just help your game, and if you want to get competitive you should be at the top of your game.

ABUR lands fit into that statement perfectly. Why should Wizards break a promise - and get a lot of community hate from not just collectors - just to satisfy some people who likely wouldn't compete in Legacy anyway?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Exactly, completely unrealistic. The golf clubs analogy just shows how out of touch the author is with real life. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars to waste on golf clubs, let alone Magic cards. This isn't a case of, "well everyone has to make some sacrifices, " this is a case of, "well you don't eat for the next 8 months, you might be able to afford legacy." Wizards could break the promise at any point. The easiest way to do this is a to an "unaffiliated" company print the cards, they choose not to because they prefer to please the collectors over the players.

The golf club analogy is more to show that if you want the best Golf clubs - there is a price for them. Playing high level legacy requires high level cards. Playing for fun with your buddies you can use Shocklands, just like you can buy cheaper golf clubs that are good, but not the best. Wizards could break that promise at any point, and the point they do decide to break it is the point it's not worth believing anything they have to say.

That is a huge lie propagated by pro-Reserved List writers. How does breaking a promise they shouldn't have made (and openly doesn't like) and appeasing the grand majority of their customers hurt them? No one is going to question their word after that, unless there is a "Reserved List 2" which would never happen. Not one person is going to go, "well they lied about the Reserved List, why should we trust that Khans is going to come out?!?" The only thing breaking the Reserved List does is increase the popularity of legacy, makes Wizards millions, increase consumer confidence, and piss off a few collectors.

[rarehuntertay]

This mirrors my current feelings on the Reserve list: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/rule-of-law-keeping-the-reserve-list/

A promise has to mean something. As much as it sucks, and as much as I would like to see more new players in the Legacy format, a mistake was made and should not be changed.

Magic on the other hand, just got way cooler. I can't wait for 2 blocks a year. It should slim the amount of time between returning to popular blocks, even less popular ones. I can't wait to have 19 Jace's in my EDH deck.

I want to know who edited that article. There is a glaring mistake to me, as the author stated that Chronicles was the reason for the Reserve Policy due to cards being reprinted such as  {Killer Bees} being in Chronicles. Killer bees were never printed in Chronicles. They were first reprinted in 4th edition, which pre-dates Chronicles by 2 sets. So that is an incorrect fact. That really bugs me that someone writing to help other people doesn't know the history of the game or didn't take the time to properly research. Same goes to the editor.
/rant

[blackychan1]

I agree with that statement entirely. I don't have money for ABUR duals. I understand that. I also don't have money to buy Turtle Beach headphones for my XBoX gaming. That doesn't mean that they need to manufacture more headphones just so that I can enjoy better quality, it means that I should save up if I wish for the best.

[InfinitiveDivinity]

An adult with a decent job and a good grasp on their finances can afford a legacy deck, even with a busy life and children. At this point, if you haven't realized that Magic is an expensive hobby, reader beware. If you really want to play Legacy but cannot afford the cards, play online. It is a fraction of the cost, and is still pretty fun. If your super cheap you can even go the Cockatrice/Untap route. Or you can always make proxies and have fun with friends. Like Dudecore has mentioned though, if you wish to play in high level tournaments with thousands of dollars on the line for winning, I think it's pretty fair that you must invest towards that goal, not simply be allowed nearly free passage just because it sounds fun. Legacy by many is considered the pinnacle of competitive play, I think the golf analogy is more than suiting.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Exactly, completely unrealistic. The golf clubs analogy just shows how out of touch the author is with real life. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars to waste on golf clubs, let alone Magic cards. This isn't a case of, "well everyone has to make some sacrifices, " this is a case of, "well you don't eat for the next 8 months, you might be able to afford legacy." Wizards could break the promise at any point. The easiest way to do this is a to an "unaffiliated" company print the cards, they choose not to because they prefer to please the collectors over the players.

It's actually a great analogy.
Do you have to have top of the line golf clubs to play golf?  No, they just help your game, and if you want to get competitive you should be at the top of your game.

ABUR lands fit into that statement perfectly. Why should Wizards break a promise - and get a lot of community hate from not just collectors - just to satisfy some people who likely wouldn't compete in Legacy anyway?

No, the analogy is more like, "you don't need golf clubs, just play with a baseball bat." Nothing comes close to ABUR dual lands, if were you to try playing competitively with shocklands, its like starting every game 8-11 life. You would never have a chance, just as you would not have a chance at a golf tournament with a baseball bat. Also, the community would not hate the decision, the grand majority would welcome it. The ABUR dual lands might not even go down, because of the increase in demand and obvious preference for original cards in the Magic community. The only people who would be angered would be collectors, who honestly shouldn't even be thought of when Wizards makes decisions.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

An adult with a decent job and a good grasp on their finances can afford a legacy deck, even with a busy life and children. At this point, if you haven't realized that Magic is an expensive hobby, reader beware. If you really want to play Legacy but cannot afford the cards, play online. It is a fraction of the cost, and is still pretty fun. If your super cheap you can even go the Cockatrice/Untap route. Or you can always make proxies and have fun with friends. Like Dudecore has mentioned though, if you wish to play in high level tournaments with thousands of dollars on the line for winning, I think it's pretty fair that you must invest towards that goal, not simply be allowed nearly free passage just because it sounds fun. Legacy by many is considered the pinnacle of competitive play, I think the golf analogy is more than suiting.

I get that everything cant' be free, but what people are suggesting is, "whoever spend the most wins," Magic, which isn't Magic. No card should cost more than $50 (Richard Garfield, The Creator of Magic actually thinks no card should cost over $20).

[InfinitiveDivinity]

I don't believe you read the article. It isn't "too bad for you" it is "too bad Wizards made this promise". Legacy is still affordable for anyone who wants to play online. You want to play in paper, proxy the lands for your friends. You want to join a tournament? Buy the cards and consider them expensive golf club. Legacy events have cash prices, if the way to obtain those cash prizes is to spend money on a deck - then that is what you have to do. Legacy can't possibly be made cheap enough that everyone would be happy.

It sucks, and it effects everyone, not just Legacy. There is nothing that can be done at this point, so we've got to move on.

Exactly, completely unrealistic. The golf clubs analogy just shows how out of touch the author is with real life. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars to waste on golf clubs, let alone Magic cards. This isn't a case of, "well everyone has to make some sacrifices, " this is a case of, "well you don't eat for the next 8 months, you might be able to afford legacy." Wizards could break the promise at any point. The easiest way to do this is a to an "unaffiliated" company print the cards, they choose not to because they prefer to please the collectors over the players.

It's actually a great analogy.
Do you have to have top of the line golf clubs to play golf?  No, they just help your game, and if you want to get competitive you should be at the top of your game.

ABUR lands fit into that statement perfectly. Why should Wizards break a promise - and get a lot of community hate from not just collectors - just to satisfy some people who likely wouldn't compete in Legacy anyway?

No, the analogy is more like, "you don't need golf clubs, just play with a baseball bat." Nothing comes close to ABUR dual lands, if were you to try playing competitively with shocklands, its like starting every game 8-11 life. You would never have a chance, just as you would not have a chance at a golf tournament with a baseball bat. Also, the community would not hate the decision, the grand majority would welcome it. The ABUR dual lands might not even go down, because of the increase in demand and obvious preference for original cards in the Magic community. The only people who would be angered would be collectors, who honestly shouldn't even be thought of when Wizards makes decisions.

Considering that serious collectors are at the top when it comes to sales of high dollar staples in the secondary market, Wizards wouldn't just be pissing off them, but also the distributors of the market themselves. Many game stores (as has already been mentioned) would lose hundreds, some even thousands, of dollars in inventory in the blink of an eye. At that point it's literally effecting the lives of store owners and the health of our LGS scene. To say that prices would not drop is a bold statement. Reprinting shocklands helped break the barrier into modern, as such, prices on both new and old suffered, some say for the better, which I do agree on. Although, when it comes to ABUR duals, that is a whole other level of greenbacks. $40-50 cards dropping to $10 is reasonable, if a set contained reprints of real duals and other legacy staples, you can bet you ass that's set will be ripped off the shelves in a frenzy by hungry players. A massive influx like this would most definitely effect their older counterparts.