Commander: Revised Edition

[Dudecore]

{Iona, Shield of Emeria} should be banned. I hate that card with a burning passion. Anything that makes it impossible for somebody to win should be banned. I'd rather be combo'd to death then somebody pays 9 mana and I'm locked down. And don't say you should have an answer for that. Two of my Commander decks are mono coloured and the other two would be hard pressed to find removal with ~50% of the deck being unplayable. Nevermind that it's on a 7/7 frame. I think it goes against the spirit of Commander in so many ways.

I don't know if it goes against the spirit of commander quite that much. There are other players at the table, and there are still ways to interact with Iona. It is a board line card when it comes to playing casually. We're not trying to balance a casual game. It is unfun, it very powerful, it is oppressive, it is not unbeatable. I think there are plenty of worse cards, like {Armageddon}, but I play it in my deck and don't win regularly.

[Remillo]

{Painter's Servant} is because of the 2 card combo with {Grindstone} and being colorless, any deck has access to it cheaply. It was based off the 1v1 banned list. 1v1 is a much different game, understandable, but it's also competitive. If they banned it for degenerative game play we would be wise to observe it. Other cards they've banned for 1v1 issues, I've ignored those. Also, the Vintage banned list is somewhat intact.

I'd like to note here that the French Duel ban list has banned Grindstone from the combo, not Painter.  Grindstone is literally only played in the combo, but Painter has a ton of really cool synergies and interactions that it can produce, if given the chance.  It allows {Sol'kanar} to gain life off of any spell cast; It's {Darkest Hour} #2 for {Teysa, Orzhov Scion}; It allows any card to cast anything off of {Dream Halls}, or any card to pitch to {Force of Will} (or get destroyed by {Pyroblast} or {Jaya Ballard}).  Ban the card that's only played in the combo, not the one that can do really cool stuff otherwise.

[Dudecore]

Well said. That makes sense. Lets do it.

I like that it turns {Jaya Ballard} first ability into inefficient {Vindicate} on a stick. It kind of breaks {Anarchy} and {Wash Out}, but those cards are terrible, so if you wanted to run them for great risk (like someone killing your {Painter's Servant}) you should be allowed.

{Llawan, Cephalid Empress} is pretty oppressive. But it would return PS and you would.have to recast it. Also it only locks out creatures, so it seems hardly worth it to run that lockout unless you're mono blue.

[LinkCelestrial]

{Iona, Shield of Emeria} should be banned. I hate that card with a burning passion. Anything that makes it impossible for somebody to win should be banned. I'd rather be combo'd to death then somebody pays 9 mana and I'm locked down. And don't say you should have an answer for that. Two of my Commander decks are mono coloured and the other two would be hard pressed to find removal with ~50% of the deck being unplayable. Nevermind that it's on a 7/7 frame. I think it goes against the spirit of Commander in so many ways.

I don't know if it goes against the spirit of commander quite that much. There are other players at the table, and there are still ways to interact with Iona. It is a board line card when it comes to playing casually. We're not trying to balance a casual game. It is unfun, it very powerful, it is oppressive, it is not unbeatable. I think there are plenty of worse cards, like {Armageddon}, but I play it in my deck and don't win regularly.

To me the spirit of Commander is that everybody has a chance of winning. If somebody just has to play a card to screw you over that doesn't really give you a chance of winning. There are worse cards, I just hate that white's flavour is so often dodging and locking down instead of a righteous charge to the face. Just my opinion.

[Dudecore]

Upon reflection, the unwieldy commander damage should stay, and it should still be 21 (even with the life total lowered). Capping life gain isn't really an option in my opinion. Players can interact with commanders, it promotes better deck building, and promotes finishing games. Life gain combos do not win games, and the only viable counter strategy is infinite damage combos.

We still have not fixed the memory issue. Perhaps a cumulative commander damage? I don't know. Keeping track of each source of damage is arduous

[Remillo]

Upon reflection, the unwieldy commander damage should stay, and it should still be 21 (even with the life total lowered). Capping life gain isn't really an option in my opinion. Players can interact with commanders, it promotes better deck building, and promotes finishing games. Life gain combos do not win games, and the only viable counter strategy is infinite damage combos.

We still have not fixed the memory issue. Perhaps a cumulative commander damage? I don't know. Keeping track of each source of damage is arduous

We just use different colors of Spindowns.  I use a Dwhatever and a D10 for my own life, and Spindowns for each of my opponents (hoping to coordinate die color to card color).  It's really not hard to keep track of, especially when only maybe a third of the decks that exist even attack with their generals.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Maybe instead of keeping track of each commander, you only track life total and the amount of damage that you have taken from all commanders. So as an example, Uril hits you for 10 and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails hits you for 5, you have taken 15 commander damage. It would have to be raised to 30 or 40, but it shouldnt be a problem because there are few commanders that try to kill through commander damage, mostly just Rafiq, Uril, Eight, and Zur.

[Munchlax]

Maybe instead of keeping track of each commander, you only track life total and the amount of damage that you have taken from all commanders. So as an example, Uril hits you for 10 and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails hits you for 5, you have taken 15 commander damage. It would have to be raised to 30 or 40, but it shouldnt be a problem because there are few commanders that try to kill through commander damage, mostly just Rafiq, Uril, Eight, and Zur.

Animar does sometimes

[Ekann1]

It's ok, the Animar guy will die first so it doesn't matter

[AdamS]

dont forget  {Prossh, Skyraider of Kher} decks uae commander damage to win

[LinkCelestrial]

Maybe instead of keeping track of each commander, you only track life total and the amount of damage that you have taken from all commanders. So as an example, Uril hits you for 10 and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails hits you for 5, you have taken 15 commander damage. It would have to be raised to 30 or 40, but it shouldnt be a problem because there are few commanders that try to kill through commander damage, mostly just Rafiq, Uril, Eight, and Zur.

I really don't like that. It gives you a major disadvantage playing commander damage if nobody else is. Commander damage is fine how it is just learn how to track your damage and don't bother tracking if it's not going to end up killing you.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Maybe instead of keeping track of each commander, you only track life total and the amount of damage that you have taken from all commanders. So as an example, Uril hits you for 10 and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails hits you for 5, you have taken 15 commander damage. It would have to be raised to 30 or 40, but it shouldnt be a problem because there are few commanders that try to kill through commander damage, mostly just Rafiq, Uril, Eight, and Zur.

I really don't like that. It gives you a major disadvantage playing commander damage if nobody else is. Commander damage is fine how it is just learn how to track your damage and don't bother tracking if it's not going to end up killing you.

Its really not that big of a disadvantage. Most decks don't have much lifegain and take at least 5 damage over the early turns trying to fix mana and what-not so even if they don't take the full 30 commander damage, they will 95% of the time die anyways.

[LinkCelestrial]

Maybe instead of keeping track of each commander, you only track life total and the amount of damage that you have taken from all commanders. So as an example, Uril hits you for 10 and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails hits you for 5, you have taken 15 commander damage. It would have to be raised to 30 or 40, but it shouldnt be a problem because there are few commanders that try to kill through commander damage, mostly just Rafiq, Uril, Eight, and Zur.

I really don't like that. It gives you a major disadvantage playing commander damage if nobody else is. Commander damage is fine how it is just learn how to track your damage and don't bother tracking if it's not going to end up killing you.

Its really not that big of a disadvantage. Most decks don't have much lifegain and take at least 5 damage over the early turns trying to fix mana and what-not so even if they don't take the full 30 commander damage, they will 95% of the time die anyways.

My {Aurelia, the Warleader} deck is turn 7 kill. If commander damage goes up to 30 it'll be a lot harder.  Commander damage is fine as is.

[Dudecore]

Cumulative commander damage is what is on offer. I can't say that I don't hate the idea. Besides, shouldn't all strategies be sufficiently difficult? I don't see anyone suggesting we lower the amount of cards a mill deck has to deal with. We're talking a combined 30 commander damage from ANY and ALL commanders is enough to kill. So you could get an ally to deal a couple of points if you want.

It solves the memory issue, instead of having to keep track of every commander and the damage dealt, but it also makes Voltron decks have to deal slightly more damage. It sounds like a win to me. But I Am Interested In some compelling arguments.

[Munchlax]

Ok so is this new list of rules for multiplayer EDH?