Avenger of zendikar and genesis wave

[Spencer Addington]

How would {avenger of zendikar} and {genesis wave} interact if I were to genesis wave for 20? Does avenger see the incoming lands as both landfall and count them for the plant tokens since they all enter the battlefield at the same time?

[Sparkle Ninja]

Genesis wave states "put them onto the battlefield" landfall states "Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control". So yes

[MisterJH]

The way i understand it youd choose the order they ETB so youd just have to have avenger enter post lands..? Or no? If they all enter together i dont see how youd get both landfall AND tokens because it has to be resolved for landfall, so youd have to have it resolve before lands for counters or after lands for tokens. RULING PLEASE

[Spencer Addington]

But if it enters the battlefield it has resolved. I'm so confused.

[FustyDavorite]

You would get the plant tokens off of the lands that entered with genesis wave. This is because AoZ's etb would not go on the stack until genesis wave's effect goes through fully. So it goes through, everything enters the battlefield, you receive priority again and the ability hits the stack, resolves, plant tokens for all the lands

[Spencer Addington]

But no counters?

[Remillo]

So, let's say you have Avenger of Zendikar enter at the same time as 10 lands, which is totally possible under a large Genesis Wave.  The Avenger will see all of the lands enter and trigger Landfall for each of them.  You'll want to stack the triggers so the Token-making ability resolves first, followed by the +1/+1 counter triggers to make pretty darn huge plants.

[MisterJH]

I dont understand how you can have the lands enter both before AND after avenger no matter how you stack the triggers? They seem mutually exclusive to me, assumig they dont enter together? Im really strugglin to understand this

[MisterJH]

Ok i think that makes sense to my poor brain

[particle]

I dont understand how you can have the lands enter both before AND after avenger no matter how you stack the triggers? They seem mutually exclusive to me, assumig they dont enter together? Im really strugglin to understand this

everything etbs at the same time. i often hear things like this, everything enters at once and players want to order how it entered. the entire spell resolves full, everything etbs at once, then players get priority and are able to put landfall, and other etb triggers, on the stack.

[MisterJH]

So te lands will all enter at te same time as avenger, does avenger get tokens for each land that enters together? I think what im eing told here is yes but it hasnt been too definitive. I get that you can stack landfall so each plant token get counters, but i jjst want a yes or no to if you get all the tokens

[Remillo]

603.6a: Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are written, "When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . " or "Whenever a [type] enters the battlefield, . . ." Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-the-battlefield triggers that match the event.

In this case, the Avenger of Zendikar "sees" all of the lands entering with it, which triggers the Landfall ability, accordingly.

[MisterJH]

Butthe landfall is what adds tokens, not what creates them. What your saying SEEMS to suggest the tokens are also created but icant get a definitive answer out of it D:

[Remillo]

Well, when multiple triggered abilities happen at the same time and are controlled by the same person (In this case, Avenger's ETB that creates the Plant Tokens, then the landfall triggers that give the plants Counter), that player can choose how to stack them up.  In this case, you make it so Avenger's ETB trigger resolves first, giving you, I don't know, 15-20 Plants (based on the number of lands you control), then all of the Landfall triggers resolve one by one, giving the newly made Plants +1/+1 Counters.

I think you're confusing yourself on terminology, confusing Counters with Tokens.  Tokens are permanents, Counters go on permanents.

[particle]

Butthe landfall is what adds tokens, not what creates them. What your saying SEEMS to suggest the tokens are also created but icant get a definitive answer out of it D:

yea the landfall isnt making the tokens, {avenger of Zendikar} is. when g wave resolves, you have multiple etb triggers to put on the stack. you could choose to have the landfall etbs resolve before the avenger makes tokens, but that would be illogical. instead, you can have the tokens resolve first, then the landfalls resolve, so the tokens are big.