Jobs

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I understand there will always be rich and poor. I am not saying "hey let's attack Bill Gates, steal his money and throw it in the streets." I am saying "hey, can't we all contribute a little so that the poor can afford to survive."

[Wingnut]

Yeah they tried that, it's called Victorian Britain. Maybe you saw it in Oliver Twist. Again, see 91 percent of people on welfare having jobs, having disabilities, or being too old to work. 84 percent of households under the poverty line have at least one family member working. This fairy tale about the poor not working is getting old, the welfare queen in your head is a tiny minority.

....and if the numbers you give are factual (as in real life and not simply what the government posts or "what is put on the application"), than I am wrong and I own that. But I don't believe it.

So it's either a rigorously reviewed survey that is accepted by demographic experts the world over or your gut. Hmm...tough choice >.>

And in the end it's information is compiled and provided by government organizations that want the control of the money. The more people that need the government to survive, the more control they have. I simply do not believe and/trust the government. They lied about tracking our phone calls and emails, they lied about the whole Benghazi mess, they control almost all the the media that is fed to us, they have create racial tension (and by the way lying is against imtg law, I say they are banned from it). Our government is not for us, they are against us and our rights as U.S. citizens. Like I said, if these numbers are factual and real world, then I apologize to everyone.

[Wingnut]

And I want to state way off topic that I'm incredibly impressed that this hasn't turned into a karma war. I'm glad a group of people can disagree, have an argument, probably be heated, not be childish and just agree that they don't agree.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

And in the end it's information is compiled and provided by government organizations that want the control of the money. The more people that need the government to survive, the more control they have. I simply do not believe and/trust the government. They lied about tracking our phone calls and emails, they lied about the whole Benghazi mess, they control almost all the the media that is fed to us, they have create racial tension (and by the way lying is against imtg law, I say they are banned from it). Our government is not for us, they are against us and our rights as U.S. citizens. Like I said, if these numbers are factual and real world, then I apologize to everyone.

I hate when people say "the government is against us". The government is full of elected officials who are supposed to represent us. Is that how it works...no, but the reason it doesn't work that way is that there are too many stupid people who vote blindly without even knowing who either candidate is or what the stand for. "Why did you vote for that person" "Oh, his slogan rhymed". That's how 80% of America votes and it is ridiculous. You could be the worst politician in the world and steal trillions from the government but still get elected because you spent money on commercials and you are a handsome person.

[Boringanarchy2]

And in the end it's information is compiled and provided by government organizations that want the control of the money. The more people that need the government to survive, the more control they have. I simply do not believe and/trust the government. They lied about tracking our phone calls and emails, they lied about the whole Benghazi mess, they control almost all the the media that is fed to us, they have create racial tension (and by the way lying is against imtg law, I say they are banned from it). Our government is not for us, they are against us and our rights as U.S. citizens. Like I said, if these numbers are factual and real world, then I apologize to everyone.

I hate when people say "the government is against us". The government is full of elected officials who are supposed to represent us. Is that how it works...no, but the reason it doesn't work that way is that there are too many stupid people who vote blindly without even knowing who either candidate is or what the stand for. "Why did you vote for that person" "Oh, his slogan rhymed". That's how 80% of America votes and it is ridiculous. You could be the worst politician in the world and steal trillions from the government but still get elected because you spent money on commercials and you are a handsome person.

Voting is an inherently irrational decision, this has been studied to death. 9 times out of ten an election will be decided by two factors: voter choice in previous elections (dems vote dem, no surprise) and economic performance.

[Wingnut]

I hate when people say "the government is against us". The government is full of elected officials who are supposed to represent us. Is that how it works...no, but the reason it doesn't work that way is that there are too many stupid people who vote blindly without even knowing who either candidate is or what the stand for. "Why did you vote for that person" "Oh, his slogan rhymed". That's how 80% of America votes and it is ridiculous. You could be the worst politician in the world and steal trillions from the government but still get elected because you spent money on commercials and you are a handsome person.

Partially agree with this statement. Candidates are pushed by political groups and funded by corporations that have agendas. Therefore, we have the ability to vote for the ones they want us to, the ones that either have their agenda, or can be controlled enough. Never mind the "donations" that are made all over the place (especially by oil companies). I just think someone needs to get in there and change the governments policies and procedures. Never gonna happen, but its a nice thought.

[Boringanarchy2]

There are ways for the poor to find high earning jobs.  I was trying to find a job and couldn't find one.  One of my friends told me their boss needed a computer person (she wasn't advertising the opening). I went in and applied.  Nothing.  Went in to check.  Nothing.  Repeated that 5 times, then got hired maki bank considering my lack of a college degree.

They can find ways to make money.

Yup that's why all my friends with initiative, drive, and intelligence have jobs...oh wait

You are hopefully trolling...

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

And in the end it's information is compiled and provided by government organizations that want the control of the money. The more people that need the government to survive, the more control they have. I simply do not believe and/trust the government. They lied about tracking our phone calls and emails, they lied about the whole Benghazi mess, they control almost all the the media that is fed to us, they have create racial tension (and by the way lying is against imtg law, I say they are banned from it). Our government is not for us, they are against us and our rights as U.S. citizens. Like I said, if these numbers are factual and real world, then I apologize to everyone.

I hate when people say "the government is against us". The government is full of elected officials who are supposed to represent us. Is that how it works...no, but the reason it doesn't work that way is that there are too many stupid people who vote blindly without even knowing who either candidate is or what the stand for. "Why did you vote for that person" "Oh, his slogan rhymed". That's how 80% of America votes and it is ridiculous. You could be the worst politician in the world and steal trillions from the government but still get elected because you spent money on commercials and you are a handsome person.

Voting is an inherently irrational decision, this has been studied to death. 9 times out of ten an election will be decided by two factors: voter choice in previous elections (dems vote dem, no surprise) and economic performance.

Do you watch Brain Games? They actually did an experiment where they showed people two candidates from elections (small ones from a different area) and found that something like 85% of the time the people could choose the winner just from like 5 seconds of looking at the picture. Yes, voting is flawed but that is because humans are flawed and why all forms of government (even Nomocracy) are flawed. If people were to actually act like they cared, payed attention to .politics., economics and the news and used their head sometime the world would be a better place but there is no way to enforce it so we are left with the world we have. The only way we can try to make the world better is to make what we think is the best choice and hope that the politicians we put their trust in help and if they don't vote for a new one next time. It not a great system but its the best one so far.

[Wingnut]

If we got rid of welfare, the people who rely on it to live will find ways to survive.  Such as relatives, begging (not the best option), churches (churches help a lot with the poor) etc.  very few would die, if any, just because we killed welfare

I don't disagree, but I don't say kill welfare, I say make it tougher. Have to work unless ACTUALLY disabled. If your not a citizen, get a damn job or go home. What, don't pass a drug test? Here's rehab. Can't find a job, ok, here's help, but you get to do community service. Working 2 jobs but need help with food and heat, than here you go. Just simply harder, make people that can work, work. Simple as that.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I hope we all know that there are many people who receive welfare and unemployment and need it to sustain themselves and their families. That being said there are multiple people (and I know a few) who scam the system, trying to collect the most they can, as long as they can because they would rather sit around. Its true, you can't deny it. But is that a reason to take food out of the mouths of those who need it? No, it isn't. This is a complex problem and it requires a complex and elegant answer that would be able to force those who are being lazy to participate in society and those who are trying their best to supply for their family, the help they need.

And again it comes back to this....

[Boringanarchy2]

There are ways for the poor to find high earning jobs.  I was trying to find a job and couldn't find one.  One of my friends told me their boss needed a computer person (she wasn't advertising the opening). I went in and applied.  Nothing.  Went in to check.  Nothing.  Repeated that 5 times, then got hired maki bank considering my lack of a college degree.

They can find ways to make money.

Yup that's why all my friends with initiative, drive, and intelligence have jobs...oh wait

You are hopefully trolling...

You can have drive and not know where to look.  My high school career I took lots of computer classes, and I found someone who needed a computer person.  D those friends of yours constantly ask everyone they know if they know someone who needs someone with their skills?

And they have to be willing to do things they don't want to.  Fast food places are always hiring.  There is a start while they look for something better.

Your patronizing is noted...

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

There are ways for the poor to find high earning jobs.  I was trying to find a job and couldn't find one.  One of my friends told me their boss needed a computer person (she wasn't advertising the opening). I went in and applied.  Nothing.  Went in to check.  Nothing.  Repeated that 5 times, then got hired maki bank considering my lack of a college degree.

They can find ways to make money.

Yup that's why all my friends with initiative, drive, and intelligence have jobs...oh wait

You are hopefully trolling...

You can have drive and not know where to look.  My high school career I took lots of computer classes, and I found someone who needed a computer person.  D those friends of yours constantly ask everyone they know if they know someone who needs someone with their skills?

And they have to be willing to do things they don't want to.  Fast food places are always hiring.  There is a start while they look for something better.

If you haven't seen the news in the last month or so, there is a huge dispute right now where people are debating if fast food jobs are enough to support people and whether or not to raise the minimum wage. Do you want the answer: no, fast food jobs don't pay enough. My father went to high school and even to college to become an accountant. He worked but when the global slump hit in 2008 my father, who was working at a construction company as an accountant, got laid off. From there he went to a factory that makes food (especially sauces) and after almost a year as a temp he was about to be hired when...the company was sold to another company and the factory was closed. After that he went on unemployment for a month or so before going to work at USPS. The problem was USPS only hires temps and you can't be hired until after a year. He worked there for a few months but the pay was too sporadic one week he would get 34 hours or so but the next he got like 11 and he couldn't support me, my brother and my stepmom so he had no choice to go on unemployment. If he were to take a minimum wage job (at McDonalds) he would only get a part time position ending up making less than what he needs to support his family. I he lazy? No, he tried to work but no one is hiring full time right now, at least not in my area. Even now I am lending him money I make from my part time job so that he can support himself. I think we should realize that not everyone on unemployment is a lazy drug user and maybe look at the truth.

[Dudecore]

The state is an aggressive entity which steals property (through taxation and expropriation), initiates aggression, has a compulsory monopoly on the use of force, uses its coercive powers to benefit some businesses and individuals at the expense of others, creates monopolies, restricts trade, and restricts personal freedoms via drug laws, compulsory education, conscription, laws on food and morality. They do what no good person would ever do in their wildest dreams.

They've got to go. An informed, intelligent public will donate to charity. Other humans successes and failures are as much our own. If the government did not seize money from us, charitable organizations can do everything you wish of them - from dispensing money to folks that deserve it, ignoring those who do not. People don't understand that if you had 30%-40% more money in your pocket - you can do much more. Taxes are taken from you forcefully, and withheld from each pay check to give the illusion of how little it is. Want to see a revolution in this country? Think of what it would be like if they took taxes in one lump sum. Who's going to fork up $14k in one shot?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

But that's assuming that people aren't greedy assholes....also I have never heard of a charity that builds roads or regulates the economy.

[Dudecore]

But that's assuming that people aren't greedy assholes....also I have never heard of a charity that builds roads or regulates the economy.

People can be as greedy as they feel necessary, if I am not forced to work with them or trade with them - they are none of my concern. Communities can build roads because they need them, and they're now owned by the people who used their labor. Economies don't need regulation, if they're not coercive and do not use aggression to seize private property or harm people then they're within their rights to do what it is they'd do.