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Tokens

Started by Malachiracer, May 16, 2013, 03:49:05 PM

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Malachiracer

Do tokens count as creatures in graveyard when dead?

Keyeto

No, but they will set off "dying" triggers and abilities. Once they hit the graveyard, they cease to exist.

And here's the ruling on tokens outside of the battlefield:

110.5f: A token that's phased out, or that's in a zone other than the battlefield, ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)

Malachiracer

What if I want to bring back zombie tokens with

MementoMori

Once tokens leave the battlefield, they cease to exist. There's no opportunity to bring them back.

Agarrita80

Would undying work on a token?

Paraluke

My opinion it might just be, since undying seems to be a triggered effect.

Millionlittlee

Quote from: Agarrita80 on May 17, 2013, 01:35:11 AM
Would undying work on a token?
[/quote

I don't think so undying triggers when the creature enters the graveyard were tokens never enter the graveyard they just disappear

Gorzo

Quote from: Millionlittlee on May 17, 2013, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: Agarrita80 on May 17, 2013, 01:35:11 AM
Would undying work on a token?

I don't think so undying triggers when the creature enters the graveyard were tokens never enter the graveyard they just disappear

The tokens do enter the graveyard, which trigger effects involving dying (including the undying trigger). However, the token then immediately ceases to exist as a state-based action that does not use the stack, so when the trigger attempts to resolve, it fails to find it's "target" (itself, the token that had undying) and the trigger is countered, because it cannot bring back something that doesn't exist.

Short answer: it fails. So no, undying doesn't work on tokens.

Paraluke

Nice explanation, thanks gonzo

InfinitiveDivinity

Quick question, can one respond with a {Cemetery Reaper} before a token ceases to exist in the GY?

Millionlittlee

Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on May 17, 2013, 05:38:28 AM
Quick question, can one respond with a {Cemetery Reaper} before a token ceases to exist in the GY?

If the tokens used the stack yes, but unfortunately tokens in the grave do not, so you could not.

Paraluke

Ehm it does say target creature card, so I guess it does not work in the first place...?

Mlerner12

Quote from: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 04:56:38 AM
Nice explanation, thanks gonzo
Gorzo. In September, I'm gonzo. ;)

Remillo

Quote from: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 06:37:07 AM
Ehm it does say target creature card, so I guess it does not work in the first place...?

This.

Cards exist in all zones other than the battlefield.  Creatures only exist on the battlefield and are Creature Cards in any other zone.  Tokens are not cards, and never will be cards, and as such can't be used for costs or effects that require (or target) cards.  Mostly because they just don't exist in zones that reference cards.

Steerpike

Keep in mind the Regenerate effect does work on tokens because, as opposed to bringing them back from another zone, it prevents the zone change in the first place