Goodbye Bomber Suspect

[Piotr]

You are incorrect, most modern research is showing that punishment is not a deterrent to criminals, for the simple reason they don't imagine themselves getting caught.

You may as well try to convince me that white is black, lol. Majority of crime is not done by braindead people, but in any case the crime that is deterred by threat of punishment is deterred because majority of people can and do imagine themselves being caught.

I think everyone universally agrees that it is unfair to sentence an insane person to death

Not at all. Here's the logic: if they are insane beyond healing and have no free will and are unable to judge what's right and wrong, they are not human and should be put down like a rabid dog they are.

[Piotr]

Maybe we should stop putting words in other people mouths first, eh?

[Birdbrain]

The death penalty is a neccisary evil. If we didnt have it, we might be further in debt than we already are. Though that shouldn't be the only reason to have it. Yes people have good deep down, but some people will choose to ignore that good all there lives. So do we choose to let them out on the street and kill again? Should we give them the chance to kill people in prison who committed lesser crimes?

[Birdbrain]

By the way. I'm arguing different sides daily to get a better understanding of the subject

[Silent1236]

By the way. I'm arguing different sides daily to get a better understanding of the subject

I'm gonna just drop in to this topic to say that you are one of the best people I've seen on the internet in a while for this post, Birdbrain.  I'd definitely give you another +1 if I could!

[smokin terry]

By the way. I'm arguing different sides daily to get a better understanding of the subject

I'm gonna just drop in to this topic to say that you are one of the best people I've seen on the internet in a while for this post, Birdbrain.  I'd definitely give you another +1 if I could!

Same here. By being able to argue both sides it makes you a much better debater. Makes it easier to see faults in your own position and makes you listen to and understand others. That is why I enjoy debates. To many people argue (this forum is a big exception).

[Piotr]

Except that it is many times cheaper to incarcerate a prisoner for life than it is to put one through death row.

This is a lie. Once proven guilty or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.

[Piotr]

Except that it is many times cheaper to incarcerate a prisoner for life than it is to put one through death row.

This is a lie. Once proven guilty or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Whoops. That's twice now you've called me a liar without backing it up.

Cliffs notes - it costs (depending on who you ask and what state) 2 to 10 times as much to push someone through death row as it does to when life in prison without parole is sought.

I'm on the verge of going Hide on you, pal. You seem to have problems understanding simple sentences. You show me some crap which stand in contradiction to basic logic and in direct contradiction to what I said: This is a lie. *Once proven guilty* or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. *Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.*

[Langku]

Except that it is many times cheaper to incarcerate a prisoner for life than it is to put one through death row.

This is a lie. Once proven guilty or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Whoops. That's twice now you've called me a liar without backing it up.

Cliffs notes - it costs (depending on who you ask and what state) 2 to 10 times as much to push someone through death row as it does to when life in prison without parole is sought.

I'm on the verge of going Hide on you, pal. You seem to have problems understanding simple sentences. You show me some crap which stand in contradiction to basic logic and in direct contradiction to what I said: This is a lie. *Once proven guilty* or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. *Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.*

Simple sentences and simplified ideas aren't synonymous with basic logic. It would be easy to predict and analyze human actions and responses if we always operated on principles of basic logic. But we do not.  What's more, the evidence Kangarod presents stands in stark contrast to your suppositions. Piotr, I value your position and I think your point is at least partially valid but calling someone's stance crap doesn't make it so. If you want a logical discussion then provide evidence, not rhetoric.

Evidence certainly seems to suggest that our current death penalty is not a fiscally wise approach. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/

Perhaps the answer to the problem is to improve our system of incarcerated labor. I believe that humans, good and bad, need to repair the damage they do to the community. Death can't really repair, it just placates.

That said, I can certainly understand the reasoning behind the death penalty and on a small scale (old west justice system) it certainly seemed to be a deterrent. Modern justice is so much more convoluted, though, and linking the death penalty to reduced crime rates becomes a big challenge. I did believe the quickest way to protect Boston was to kill both Tsarnaev brothers. But that time has passed. For my part, I feel the time for retaliation ended when he was captured. Now is the time for reparation.

[Piotr]

Except that it is many times cheaper to incarcerate a prisoner for life than it is to put one through death row.

This is a lie. Once proven guilty or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Whoops. That's twice now you've called me a liar without backing it up.

Cliffs notes - it costs (depending on who you ask and what state) 2 to 10 times as much to push someone through death row as it does to when life in prison without parole is sought.

I'm on the verge of going Hide on you, pal. You seem to have problems understanding simple sentences. You show me some crap which stand in contradiction to basic logic and in direct contradiction to what I said: This is a lie. *Once proven guilty* or not, death penalty is much cheaper on average. *Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.*

Simple sentences and simplified ideas aren't synonymous with basic logic. It would be easy to predict and analyze human actions and responses if we always operated on principles of basic logic. But we do not.  What's more, the evidence Kangarod presents stands in stark contrast to your suppositions. Piotr, I value your position and I think your point is at least partially valid but calling someone's stance crap doesn't make it so. If you want a logical discussion then provide evidence, not rhetoric.

I called his 'evidence' crap after looking at the link he provided and checking that the site is full of it. They claim that *cost of the trial* somehow makes death penalty more expensive, which is utter nonsense as I stated in *Before proven guilty, everyone deserves the same fair trial and the cost it the same.* In any case, it takes some serious balls to try to convince people with half a brain that 20 years in prison is cheaper than reusable rope. I rest my case.

I feel the time for retaliation ended when he was captured. Now is the time for reparation.

Reparation, how? You are gonna make him raise the dead? Or is he supposed to take place of the people he murdered? Be cuddled as the son and made love to as the mother?

Restitution in murder cases is not possible, all we have left is retribution. It is up to the families to decide if they want to pardon the guy, but I do not believe that anyone has the right to stop the victims from demanding and executing the logical sentence. Note that this is my belief based on iMtG Law and has nothing to do with state laws.

[Piotr]

Evidence certainly seems to suggest that our current death penalty is not a fiscally wise approach. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/

Lol I thought we are having a serious debate here but you are showing me how 20 years in prison and dying of heart attack is called 'capital punishment' in California, hilarious. The rest of the guys sentenced 20 years ago are still alive lol. Man, you have some serious problems with some of the states :P

Not your fault ;)

I will repeat: the purpose of capital punishment for murder is not to save money, it is to deal justice. Capital punishment for murder indeed deters crime and saves money, but that's just added bonus. ;)

[Birdbrain]

Name calling wont get you anywhere kanga. It will only push people away, and not open people up to see your way of thinking. All it does is piss people off

Even if they don't adopt your way of thinking, the purpose in a debate is to share ideas. Sometimes yes, to convince people. Though your never going to convince them if you can't get them to open up to see your way of thinking

Name calling just shuts the door not only for your current argument, but for future ones as well. If your not going to say anything nice in this thread, if your going to be a bull head, if this thread is going to upset you, then don't click on this thread. You won't gain friends by name calling, you will lose them

[Piotr]

KangaRod, I see significant difference between

honest capital punishment which causes murderers to actually die by hanging them or whatever

and

your style 'capital punishment' where murderers are kept in prison until they die of old age, as per your 'evidence'.

I call your style 'capital punishment' a big fat lie, not a capital punishment.

[Birdbrain]

One alternative punshment would be to find a way to wake up there empathy and make them realize exactly what they have done

Also, what kind of a punishment is death row anyway? Your not punishing the criminal. Technically your setting them free into death. Sure many people don't want to die, and so it is a deterent. Though, what purpose does it serve?

[Piotr]

Retribution.