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Cipher

Started by Avodroc13, April 19, 2013, 05:25:20 PM

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Avodroc13

 {Shriekgeist} +  {Hands of Binding}
Please explain this combo to the most extensive description you can come up with.
My friend says "I play hands of binding and ciphered it on shriekgeist" he tapped my creature, and proceeds with his turn. He attacks with shriekgeist and played a COPY of shriekgeist from the description of hands of binding. He thinks that cipher allows him to COPY the CREATURE card and use the ability on the creature TWICE.
It's really making me mad, please help me figure this out.

The1337Magician

It copies the spell not the creature. So when it deals damage you put top two and tap a creature.

Gorzo

Cipher allows you copy the cipher card when the encoded creature hits a player, it doesn't copy the creature. In this case, he would play {Hands of Binding} and tap your creature, then encode it onto his {Shriekgeist}. When the Geist attacks and hits, he would be able to cast a copy of {Hand of binding} and tap another creature. He would not get another creature, nor would the copy spell be able to cipher onto a creature.

MementoMori

Cipher says you exile the card "encoded" on a creature you control. Then, when that creature deals combat danage to a player, you can copy the "encoded" card. Nothing else.

Avodroc13

THANK YOU we have been arguing ever since I typed it up

Keyeto

Here we go:

702.97a Cipher appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities, one that functions while the spell is on the stack and one that functions while the card with cipher is in the exile zone. "Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control" and "As long as this card is encoded on that creature, that creature has 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy this card and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.'"

702.97b The term "encoded" describes the relationship between the card with cipher while in the exile zone and the creature chosen when the spell represented by that card resolves.

702.97c The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield. The card remains encoded on that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.

I bolded the points most relevant to my point, which is the following:

When you cipher a card, the card with Cipher gets encoded on the creature. The card itself says that when the creature deals combat damage, you may cast "this card". That phrase, as bolded in the rules entries above, is very much referring to the card with Cipher, while it is in the exile zone. It would be worded much differently if it let you cAst the creature; perhaps like this, "Whenever encoded creature deals combat damage to a player, you may cast a copy of encoded creature without paying its mana cost".

Hopefully this was extensive enough, and cleared things up.

Edit: Looks like you guys really beat me to the punch, lol.

The1337Magician

I think four answers covers it.