Price guide numbers abnormally off

[Silent1236]

False. At the time it was posted, there was a problem with the price guide on those two cards (granted, it was an error on tcgplayer's part, not yours.) While it didn't say "Price guide on two cards," it didn't say "Price guide for all cards" either.  That is where there is some room for interpretation on it. 

[Piotr]

False. At the time it was posted, there was a problem with the price guide on those two cards (granted, it was an error on tcgplayer's part, not yours.) While it didn't say "Price guide on two cards," it didn't say "Price guide for all cards" either.  That is where there is some room for interpretation on it.

Seems legit, thanks!

[Piotr]

So I peeped the {doubling chant} mentioned in another thread, it said $493 or some ridiculous amount, apparently my {crystal quarry} is worth $78 on average?

What's up with the price checker?

{TCGplayer, the Provider of Prices} is using average from the prices provided to them by the shops. Sometimes a shop will make a typo while entering prices and the average gets screwed in the process. Makes sense?

They are working on it: http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=15690.msg144209#msg144209

[MuggyWuggy]

So I peeped the {doubling chant} mentioned in another thread, it said $493 or some ridiculous amount, apparently my {crystal quarry} is worth $78 on average?

What's up with the price checker?

Wow quite an over reaction by you Piotr, I'm sorry you take every offense personally when it comes to the app. When a $15 card states $458 - I would consider that an error, a huge error. Now maybe how I chose my words was a little too abrasive, but none the less there was a problem.

Now was it TCGs fault? Yes, apparently it was. I asked mainly as I updated my database and my price check went to the absurd numbers. It wasn't just those two cards either, most cards had their prices inflated to numbers in the $300+ range, I didn't feel like listing every card.

I had wondered if anyone had a similar issue, you know, use a forum to discuss a strange issue with an application a community uses to troubleshoot the issue.

[swallowtail]

Wow, I agree with the overall thread of response here, and I see Piotr's reaction as unnecessarily harsh. I'm going to comment on this because I too have seen a familiar pattern, and it's not one that is good to see.

Piotr as you seem to appreciate logical reasoning, this is why:

Lying to me is statement of incorrect fact with an intention to either deceive or hide truth, for reasons known to the liar. As you say Piotr, we can't tell intention, and can only read words as written, but as an optimistic human being I believe that if there is doubt about intent, or the statement is ambiguous as this one was, first response should be to seek clarification of intent, not cast accusations of deceptive intent.

The original post and subsequent clarifications read to me that the poster was unaware of how the pricing works, and was incorrectly placing the blame on iMTG. Unfortunate yes. But deliberate intent to deceive by statement of false facts? Why would he, when the truth would so easily and openly prove him wrong? It would not make any sense for him to lie in the fashion that was suggested. Far more likely in context of his comment was that he did not understand.

The first response being an accusation of lying is not conducive to a welcoming and friendly community, that you lead Piotr by your example. The tone you set will be followed by the many young impressionable members here. Members with issues will think twice before posting, out of fear of unpleasant responses. Sure, some will think harder about being clearer in wording, but some won't bother to post at all.

I have been on too many forums over many years that have become horrible places due to unwelcoming and officious mods who quote rules and laws over putting themselves in the shoes of less knowledgeable members, or forgetting that they were new once too.

I'm not saying don't call people out who transgress, but it would be nice to see the first step be to ask questions then shoot if warranted, not the other way around as exhibited in this thread.

The forum is mutual benefit - we get a great community of people who share interest and the app. You get a community of people who can help you develop, test and improve iMTG. Win win. Let's keep it that way.

Just my 2c...

[Rhazor]

Wow, I agree with the overall thread of response here, and I see Piotr's reaction as unnecessarily harsh. I'm going to comment on this because I too have seen a familiar pattern, and it's not one that is good to see.

Piotr as you seem to appreciate logical reasoning, this is why:

Lying to me is statement of incorrect fact with an intention to either deceive or hide truth, for reasons known to the liar. As you say Piotr, we can't tell intention, and can only read words as written, but as an optimistic human being I believe that if there is doubt about intent, or the statement is ambiguous as this one was, first response should be to seek clarification of intent, not cast accusations of deceptive intent.

The original post and subsequent clarifications read to me that the poster was unaware of how the pricing works, and was incorrectly placing the blame on iMTG. Unfortunate yes. But deliberate intent to deceive by statement of false facts? Why would he, when the truth would so easily and openly prove him wrong? It would not make any sense for him to lie in the fashion that was suggested. Far more likely in context of his comment was that he did not understand.

The first response being an accusation of lying is not conducive to a welcoming and friendly community, that you lead Piotr by your example. The tone you set will be followed by the many young impressionable members here. Members with issues will think twice before posting, out of fear of unpleasant responses. Sure, some will think harder about being clearer in wording, but some won't bother to post at all.

I have been on too many forums over many years that have become horrible places due to unwelcoming and officious mods who quote rules and laws over putting themselves in the shoes of less knowledgeable members, or forgetting that they were new once too.

I'm not saying don't call people out who transgress, but it would be nice to see the first step be to ask questions then shoot if warranted, not the other way around as exhibited in this thread.

The forum is mutual benefit - we get a great community of people who share interest and the app. You get a community of people who can help you develop, test and improve iMTG. Win win. Let's keep it that way.

Just my 2c...

I can't like it because I don't have enough posts, but your comments were extremely well expressed and worded.

Congrats!

[Piotr]

Lying to me is statement of incorrect fact with an intention to either deceive or hide truth, for reasons known to the liar.

Precisely. Now, knowing how the pricing system works and what are its weaknesses, I knew that the price system is not at all 'terribly messed up'. I had no reasons to believe that 'more than half of the prices in the guide were wrong', and I still don't believe it. I had all the required reasons to call out lie in this particular case. I couldn't prove it, case closed.

Now, to all the customers and forum members: please expect as harsh or harsher response from me if you post in iMtG part of the forum without proper data to back up your claims. Do not exaggerate, I do not want this to be done to me. Exaggeration is a form of lie, if not intended as a joke. I hope that's clear enough.

[Piotr]

As you say Piotr, we can't tell intention, and can only read words as written, but as an optimistic human being I believe that if there is doubt about intent, or the statement is ambiguous as this one was, first response should be to seek clarification of intent, not cast accusations of deceptive intent.

'How exactly is that not lying?' was asked to clarify intentions. Unfortunately, the topic drifted.

[Mike_garzone]

Wow, I agree with the overall thread of response here, and I see Piotr's reaction as unnecessarily harsh. I'm going to comment on this because I too have seen a familiar pattern, and it's not one that is good to see.

Piotr as you seem to appreciate logical reasoning, this is why:

Lying to me is statement of incorrect fact with an intention to either deceive or hide truth, for reasons known to the liar. As you say Piotr, we can't tell intention, and can only read words as written, but as an optimistic human being I believe that if there is doubt about intent, or the statement is ambiguous as this one was, first response should be to seek clarification of intent, not cast accusations of deceptive intent.

The original post and subsequent clarifications read to me that the poster was unaware of how the pricing works, and was incorrectly placing the blame on iMTG. Unfortunate yes. But deliberate intent to deceive by statement of false facts? Why would he, when the truth would so easily and openly prove him wrong? It would not make any sense for him to lie in the fashion that was suggested. Far more likely in context of his comment was that he did not understand.

The first response being an accusation of lying is not conducive to a welcoming and friendly community, that you lead Piotr by your example. The tone you set will be followed by the many young impressionable members here. Members with issues will think twice before posting, out of fear of unpleasant responses. Sure, some will think harder about being clearer in wording, but some won't bother to post at all.

I have been on too many forums over many years that have become horrible places due to unwelcoming and officious mods who quote rules and laws over putting themselves in the shoes of less knowledgeable members, or forgetting that they were new once too.

I'm not saying don't call people out who transgress, but it would be nice to see the first step be to ask questions then shoot if warranted, not the other way around as exhibited in this thread.

The forum is mutual benefit - we get a great community of people who share interest and the app. You get a community of people who can help you develop, test and improve iMTG. Win win. Let's keep it that way.

Just my 2c...

Well played good sir, +1

And on a separate note, is it just me or is every one generally overreacting to something that really does not matter...at all.

[swallowtail]

I had all the required reasons to call out lie in this particular case.

This is a perfect example to illustrate my point Piotr. I don't believe your statement is correct. But my response is not to ask you if you are lying, it is to point out that no, you did not have all the information needed to suggest that. Specifically, you did not know his intent. You could have (should have) clarified to ascertain that BEFORE asking if he was lying.

Now, to all the customers and forum members: please expect as harsh or harsher response from me if you post in iMtG part of the forum without proper data to back up your claims. Do not exaggerate, I do not want this to be done to me. Exaggeration is a form of lie, if not intended as a joke. I hope that's clear enough.

99% of people in this world are not scientists who are supposed to only posit information with data to back up claims. We are human beings who make mistakes, and speak sometimes (often) without putting in the necessary thought. We all exaggerate (unintentionally) on a daily basis, based on our own assessment and point of view. You do too Piotr. Do we want this to be 'done to us'? Of course not, but we develop the emotional intelligence to be able to absorb it and work with other human beings in a socially acceptable and non-aggressive non-antagonistic manner.

Your response i quote here is antagonistic Piotr. It is perfectly clear, no problems there, but it just sounds to me like chest-beating with no helpful content at all. In your words we are your customers. I don't subscribe to the 'customer is always right' belief, but customers do deserve the benefit of the doubt. E.g. I work in the airline industry... Imagine a passenger on a plane, frustrated because the plane is late leaving. He comments to the crew 'this airline is ALWAYS late'. Is he correct? No. Does the crew member say 'You are lying.' They could, but would that help the situation? Absolutely not. Would it escalate the situation, aggravate the customer, and be unnecessary and pointless? Yes. As was your response. They are trained to cut through comments like that and calm situations down. You set the tone here Piotr...

What we have the RIGHT to do is many times not the RIGHT thing to do. Wisdom is knowing when they are different.

I don't contribute much to this forum - 80 odd posts in a year - but if this pattern continues I will just step away. I don't like the attitude. I doubt I would be alone.

And if you think that would be our loss, then that is your loss.

[Rhazor]

I had all the required reasons to call out lie in this particular case.

This is a perfect example to illustrate my point Piotr. I don't believe your statement is correct. But my response is not to ask you if you are lying, it is to point out that no, you did not have all the information needed to suggest that. Specifically, you did not know his intent. You could have (should have) clarified to ascertain that BEFORE asking if he was lying.

Now, to all the customers and forum members: please expect as harsh or harsher response from me if you post in iMtG part of the forum without proper data to back up your claims. Do not exaggerate, I do not want this to be done to me. Exaggeration is a form of lie, if not intended as a joke. I hope that's clear enough.

99% of people in this world are not scientists who are supposed to only posit information with data to back up claims. We are human beings who make mistakes, and speak sometimes (often) without putting in the necessary thought. We all exaggerate (unintentionally) on a daily basis, based on our own assessment and point of view. You do too Piotr. Do we want this to be 'done to us'? Of course not, but we develop the emotional intelligence to be able to absorb it and work with other human beings in a socially acceptable and non-aggressive non-antagonistic manner.

Your response i quote here is antagonistic Piotr. It is perfectly clear, no problems there, but it just sounds to me like chest-beating with no helpful content at all. In your words we are your customers. I don't subscribe to the 'customer is always right' belief, but customers do deserve the benefit of the doubt. E.g. I work in the airline industry... Imagine a passenger on a plane, frustrated because the plane is late leaving. He comments to the crew 'this airline is ALWAYS late'. Is he correct? No. Does the crew member say 'You are lying.' They could, but would that help the situation? Absolutely not. Would it escalate the situation, aggravate the customer, and be unnecessary and pointless? Yes. As was your response. They are trained to cut through comments like that and calm situations down. You set the tone here Piotr...

What we have the RIGHT to do is many times not the RIGHT thing to do. Wisdom is knowing when they are different.

I don't contribute much to this forum - 80 odd posts in a year - but if this pattern continues I will just step away. I don't like the attitude. I doubt I would be alone.

And if you think that would be our loss, then that is your loss.

Again, I have to 100% agree. I already commented the other day that I hadn't liked the tone of one of Piotr's replies to 1 of my posts. It made me feel bad and annoyed.

Piotr is an amazing developer. Not only that, he has solved many (if not almos all) of my doubts and problems really fast. That's an outstanding service for a 5-star app that has become my most-used app. Nevertheless, this doesn't mean that I like reading the irony or sarcasm in some of the replies in the forum.

And yes, that kind of replies can only make people unwilling to ask or comment (it crossed my mind, the following time I had a question). If people don't ask doubts or comment on things that are not working as they should, the app will not improve as fast as it could, and that's bad for everyone (customers and developer).

I agree with Swallowtail and I think his example of the flight industry was fantastic. We can always find rude customers but if we are also rude the only thing that can happen is that the problem escalates and we end up loosing that customer and other customers in the way.

I know the forum is not a strict part of iMtG, but it is really helpful and interesting (I'm learning a lot here), but if the tone and the mood is going to continue in this direction I might make the same decission as the previous poster.

Common, guys, let's keep a possitive attitude as long as we can...

Best,

Rhazor

[MarduArrow]

The way I see this whole explosion is the op noticed something had gone awry with the prices, not knowing that it wasn't the fault of the app itself he did what any rational person would do and reported it, Piotr misunderstood the report due to miscommunication and responded with hostility, all in all this was the result of a misunderstanding and a miscommunication, assuming we are all human, humans make mistakes let's get over it and move on

[reezel]

The way I see this whole explosion is the op noticed something had gone awry with the prices, not knowing that it wasn't the fault of the app itself he did what any rational person would do and reported it, Piotr misunderstood the report due to miscommunication and responded with hostility, all in all this was the result of a misunderstanding and a miscommunication, assuming we are all human, humans make mistakes let's get over it and move on

I agree with your points, but brought the issue up because I was watching these type of statements turn the community towards nastiness. If the tone isn't formally changed with an acknowledgment of some sort I feel like I will have to leave the community. I hope dearly that will not be the case.

[Mentonin]

Lying to me is statement of incorrect fact with an intention to either deceive or hide truth, for reasons known to the liar.

Precisely. Now, knowing how the pricing system works and what are its weaknesses, I knew that the price system is not at all 'terribly messed up'. I had no reasons to believe that 'more than half of the prices in the guide were wrong', and I still don't believe it. I had all the required reasons to call out lie in this

'Terribly messed up' doesn't necessarily mean 'more than half the prices messed up. It could just mean some cards wrong by 49000%, don't you think? Your values can be different than other people's values, think about it.

[Piotr]

I would name the topic 'issues with price guide' or 'some prices are way off', but never 'terribly messed up'. I prefer precise wording in places which are visible to other customers, especially iMtG section of Gathering. I felt like a punishment is in line but one of the mods judged otherwise, fair enough. Now I made myself clear, if you post FUD here you will get harsh response from me. If you want to emo quit over it, you're free to go.