Competitive subforum

[Desolatus]

I am very new to MTG but it sounds to me like what is being asked for is a forum for net decks and a forum for home brewed. It seems like most "competitive" decks are just slight variations on a theme. I don't like to play net decks because half of the fun I get is from brewing. I consider my decks competitive although I build them completely on my own. I am not very cpetitive yet but I hope someday to be good enough to build a deck that will be able to beat most net decks. Maybe I am dreaming because I just don't understand MTG well enough yet but this is my 2 cents.

I can agree with this.  Most "competitive" decks seem to be net decks with a couple little modifications.  There are plenty of competitive homebrews.

If the subforum isn't something you're interested in, then you can look at it as a place where all those net-deckers go to post and keep your part of the forum friendly to home-brewers. You can pop in occasionally to see what you might run into at the next FNM. I mean, there are plenty of good things that could come out of it (*cough* community competitive deck *cough*) but nothing that could HURT you or the standard forum. Why not give it a shot?

Don't misunderstand me, I am not opposed to subdividing the standard forum, I am fine with it. I am opposed to having to choose between competitive, read net deck, and casual, read home brewed. I intend my home brews to be competitive AND home brewed. As a matter if fact I intend to continue to improve to the point I can home brew and beat most net decks. I am not being cocky, I just hope that with enough time and experience my skills will improve to the point I can do this. It might not happen but I have to have goals.

The subforum could become, in part, a place to see how your home-brew matches up against the most competitive decks in standard. People can give you feedback on how to make your home-brew more suited to beat trouble matchups or what-have-you. Having a Casual standard for fun decks and the Competitive standard for Competitive decks could be what you need. It would honestly help you, as your competitive home-brew wouldn't have any trouble beating Fun, Gimmick-y decks, but it might against, say, Naya Aggro.

In no way do I think that the Competitive subforum should just be a bunch of netdecks. They would be there, but SERIOUS decks from competitive players would find a home more suited to them than the current Standard forum IMO.

[Seth5000]

You know what NO lol I'm a very competitive home brewer and I win FNM a lot with my home brewed decks every once in a while I'll make a modified net deck and if that part of the forums are going to be for competitive net decks well F da shiznit

[Desolatus]

You know what NO lol I'm a very competitive home brewer and I win FNM a lot with my home brewed decks every once in a while I'll make a modified net deck and if that part of the forums are going to be for competitive net decks well F da shiznit

You know, I have no idea what you mean by F da shiznit, but I did in the last post say that it could be a place for any competitive deck, not only net-decks. I don't know what you're upset about.

[Bapr]

Mtgsalvation has a section like this already. It's a good idea. There competitive section is separated by established and developing decks. Established being decks already making waves and constantly placing in large events. I don't see this being hard to implement.

[Kaleo42]

This idea has been brought up before, i believe i actually instigated this topic once. It seems the difficulty is truly in the definition. Here are some things to consider:
1. This section has the most activity of all the deck building sections.
2. That means people trying to get better can get the most help by posting here
3. Which in tun means many under developed decks and deckbuilders can be found here ("under developed" as seen by seasoned players)
4. 50-95% of so called competitive decks will appear close enough to a deck seen in major events and be passed off as a "net deck"
5. Patrick Chapin addresses the idea of net decking quite accurately in my opinion. He says in today's competitive seen the sharing of knowledge and shortened periods between major events encourages playing and tweaking a proven deck. This is because of a better known meta as well as limited time to learn the ins and outs of a deck let alone create or perfect a new archetype.
6. Homebrewing competitively is possible, my team and I are proof of that. It is however difficult and generally takes around a month of planning and reveiwing with games against 20-40 random decks (meaning you dont know what youre playing against before hand, so general archetypes in succession still count) as well as a multitude of hours put into solitaire and group testing to make a deck ready for high level events like PTQs and GPs. This process can be quickened with focused group testing whose members are seasoned and cohesive as a group.
7. From a moderator's perspective it may not be fair to newer players to shun them away from the eyes of the more competitive players theyre actually seeking advice from.

Clearly I now fall against a division. However I purpose and alternative.
Labels
My team decks that we deem worthy of competitve play all bare the preface "FNM" and my simple thoughts and creations do not. Some sort of encouraged labeling system similar to this or perhaps the more invasive option of moderator renaming like we do in the rules forum to ease searches would be more appropriate. Let me know what you think and I apologize if any of this steps on the toes of or does not consider what ever was posted as this was written.

[Bookmeister]

Like I said I have no problem with this as long as I can post my home brewed competitive decks. I think I am getting a clearer idea and would support this.

[Dudecore]

It would just be netdecks with little tweaks, as many of us have stated. Now, if the posters would self-censor with nice prefixes like "FNM:" and "Budget:", that'd be great.

At one time, users frequently posted homebrew in the Casual forum, and Standard had a competitive connotation. Since BlackJester left, and no one gives help in casual, those decks have migrated over.

[Kaleo42]

It would just be netdecks with little tweaks, as many of us have stated. Now, if the posters would self-censor with nice prefixes like "FNM:" and "Budget:", that'd be great.

At one time, users frequently posted homebrew in the Casual forum, and Standard had a competitive connotation. Since BlackJester left, and no one gives help in casual, those decks have migrated over.

I know youve been a prefix fan all along, do you have suggestions for quick prifixes? Preferably only a few letters long.

Is there really no casual mod among us any more?

[Mikefrompluto]

Prefixes are the way to go. "Com" for competitive, and "Fun" for just-for-fun decks. There could be more but those are the more obvious. Everybody wins.

[Dudecore]

It would just be netdecks with little tweaks, as many of us have stated. Now, if the posters would self-censor with nice prefixes like "FNM:" and "Budget:", that'd be great.

At one time, users frequently posted homebrew in the Casual forum, and Standard had a competitive connotation. Since BlackJester left, and no one gives help in casual, those decks have migrated over.

I know youve been a prefix fan all along, do you have suggestions for quick prifixes? Preferably only a few letters long.

Is there really no casual mod among us any more?

Maybe "FNM:" for those more casual FNM decks, and suffix "(Budget)" for budget decks? As mods our hands are kinda tied here. A user has to change the deck name in Deck builder and post willingly in the correct forum.

And no, I don't think we've got a casual moderator. This forum moves so quickly, I tried for some time to squash conversations and move banter, because it takes away from the decks. It is no hope. Standard is a machine that swallows men whole.

[Kaleo42]

How about this?
FNM: competitive deck
PTQ: or GP: for major event decks
BDGT: budget build for competition
No prefix for basic ideas and more fun standard decks perhaps for friends or as a newer builder. I lean toward no prefix on these since new people will not likely be aware of the system and post without prefixs anyways.
This system would make finding a certain level of deck easy with the search function.
As mods we can at least recommend changes of mislabelled decks with an explaination on why it has been deemed mislabeled.

[MisterJH]

How about this?
FNM: competitive deck
PTQ: or GP: for major event decks
BDGT: budget build for competition
No prefix for basic ideas and more fun standard decks perhaps for friends or as a newer builder. I lean toward no prefix on these since new people will not likely be aware of the system and post without prefixs anyways.
This system would make finding a certain level of deck easy with the search function.
As mods we can at least recommend changes of mislabelled decks with an explaination on why it has been deemed mislabeled.

What about disputes about homebrews that experience players deem un-FNM? Would these still not be overlooked? These decks require time and effort, which is why this system leans towards netdecks. Perhaps there could be an FNM-HB tag so people can decide whether they want to spend time on home brews or would rather stick with net deck. Thats the only qualm i have.

[Dudecore]

I think every one of these "challenge" decks should be moved to casual. I think anything budget should be casual also. But that is just me.

Then anyone looking in the casual forum would be like "how come this isn't in standard"? It is a no win. Maybe the competitive dudes should just usurp the "Other" forum and make it their own.

[Kaleo42]

DC your disposition on standard makes it hard to take what youre saying to heart. However you superb past involvement completely balances it out. Im left fairly lost trying to decipher the undertone of standard hate from your great moderation skills.

As for the homebrew question, I believe that is where I come in. As a competitive homebrewer who was trained by competitive homebrewers and now has a team of competitive players equally skilled with a homebrew or a net deck I feel confident I know how to spot a competitive potential and detail what is missing in non competitive homebrews.

[Dudecore]

It isn't Standard hate. I'm actually just at a loss for what to do with this forum, or in which order users should be inconvenienced.

Should competitive players use tags like "GP" or "PTQ", or should budget players be using the tags?

Ideally, kitchen table stuff - even if it uses Standard format cards and rules - is casual. That is the way I see it. Budget is a grey area, and Challenge decks, while fun (and I've done many), strike me as casual.

With a fast moving forum like standard, it is important to delineate the type of decks, so the right people can find them and give em help. Before you know it, some good decks get buried without help.