Cockatrice and the likes

[Piotr]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7893671&postcount=11

'I believe [iMtG and other toolboxes] should be allowed to use card images and ship databases containing card rules in our mobile and computer apps, as long as we do not interfere with the WotC core business which is the game. Any app which is a game of Magic should be rightfully killed. Not if it's a reference or utility helping the players to play their game.'

[NyghtHawk]

They shut it down because of its ability to play the game, although no different really than MWS.

They are foolish though as it helps people to playtest different cards before going out and buying them. I have spent more money on Magic because of Cockatrice letting me see what I want to do. Before I didnt buy cards like I do now because I didnt want to waste money if I didnt like the cards or the deck. With Cockatrice I could figure out what I wanted and tune it a bit, then buy cards.

[Dudecore]

I mean, anyone playing cockatrice knows it wasn't the right thing to do...it looks like Magic Online without rules enforcement. It is basically copyright infringement. Wizards has a product that they create, promote and sell, an entity they own. For someone to take their hard work and say "it's free for educational purposes" is fraud.

[Piotr]

Using Cockatrice to play MTG is obviously breaking the iMtG Law. Logic: WotC wouldn't want electronic copies of their cards to be used to play MTG.

You can argue who owns electronic copies of your own cards, though. If you can prove that it is you rather than WotC, then ok, but I don't see that proof.

EDIT: My updated stance of the topic: http://ultimatelaw.org/examples/patents.html

[NyghtHawk]

I mean, anyone playing cockatrice knows it wasn't the right thing to do...it looks like Magic Online without rules enforcement. It is basically copyright infringement. Wizards has a product that they create, promote and sell, an entity they own. For someone to take their hard work and say "it's free for educational purposes" is fraud.

I see it no different than playing with proxies in person to see if you like how the deck would play before spending the money. On cockatrice you just had more people to try with then just a buddy or two.

Like I said, spent more money on paper magic bc of testing on cockatrice. I wouldn't have spent if I couldn't test.

[Piotr]

I mean, anyone playing cockatrice knows it wasn't the right thing to do...it looks like Magic Online without rules enforcement. It is basically copyright infringement. Wizards has a product that they create, promote and sell, an entity they own. For someone to take their hard work and say "it's free for educational purposes" is fraud.

I see it no different than playing with proxies in person to see if you like how the deck would play before spending the money.

This is specifically forbidden by WotC and US copyright law. I'm pretty good at copyright law since WotC vs. Community ;)

[NyghtHawk]

Not saying I dont understand what they're doing, just saying that its actually helpful to them for many or the majority of people who test decks out there. They want us to play MTGO exclusively because they own it but unfortunately its just like paper Magic so you cant try things there before you go ahead and purchase them. If that was an option, nobody would find the need to play cockatrice.

[Dudecore]

Wizards business model unfortunately doesn't provide support for players to test new things. They'd prefer you opened boosters or MODO.

You can always proxy. Print out sheets of paper and put them infront of basic lands in sleeves.

[Rass]

Not saying I dont understand what they're doing, just saying that its actually helpful to them for many or the majority of people who test decks out there. They want us to play MTGO exclusively because they own it but unfortunately its just like paper Magic so you cant try things there before you go ahead and purchase them. If that was an option, nobody would find the need to play cockatrice.

They let you download dotp for free on ps3 and Xbox to check it out.

[NyghtHawk]

Wizards business model unfortunately doesn't provide support for players to test new things. They'd prefer you opened boosters or MODO.

You can always proxy. Print out sheets of paper and put them infront of basic lands in sleeves.

Of course that's their model but the majority of people don't just open new packs or buy cards they are thinking about to build specific decks, especially pertaining to modern and legacy, without trying things first. A lot of people try things first like proxying but cockatrice gives you a much broader field for testing.

Anyway, I think we all get why they do it but doesn't make us have to agree that it's completely in their interest.

[Dudecore]

I do wish they had a version of Magic Online with all of the cards unlocked. But Wizards is a business.

I'd probably even pay a subscription fee for all the cards unlocked, but you could only play unranked, private games. I think they'd get plenty of subs.

I don't play MTGO anymore, and I'm trading away all of my paper - because I'm going EDH and building a cube. Still being able to play standard for hundreds of less dollars sounds intriguing. That is why it's unlikely to happen.

[Piotr]

I think we all get why they do it but doesn't make us have to agree that it's completely in their interest.

True, if you look at business model of iMtG you can notice how different my approach is from Hasbro's ;)
Still, we have to honour their choices.

[Imdowd80]

On the money making side of things, I'm pretty sure wizards doesn't get a cut when you go and buy singles from stores, as its a secondary market. Just look at the video game industry and their opposition to the used game market to understand where I'm coming from.
So in buying singles after play testing with proxies, or on line doesn't help them. They get money from boosters.
As to shutting down cockatrice, if it didn't use card images, just the name of the card and text about what it does, would it still be legal.

End ramble.

[NyghtHawk]

Whether I'm on cockatrice or not, if I'm building a deck and need specific cards I'm not going to buy packs regardless. I'm buying singles.

In another regard, I also draft every week for fun and to add a few cards to the collection.

[Piotr]

WotC couldn't sell anywhere near what they are selling if not for the secondary market.

Value of things is what people are willing to pay for them, if people couldn't easily sell the contents of boosters they wouldn't buy as much of them.