Odd news

[Fenster]

Not always.
But in this case yes i do!
Theres always room for improvment with everything goverment related but this works!
Its not blind comunism its proven statistics!
It doesnt work everywhere but it DOES work here! In Sweden.

And i meant that its statistically proven that its less frauds than victims. If you keep saying its not bring then me the evidence thats not wikipedia or bbc/cnn/fox.

[Piotr]

Oh and that social contribution is added above my pay. My employer pays my wage per my contract then an additional "Employer fee" straight to the goverment. I never see this money but its not deducted from my wage.
This is a fact.
Another fact is that this fee is very low however.

I've seen people banned on this forum for lying, so be very careful.

Taxes on wages do include stealth taxation called in Sweden 'social security contributions' (for the employer the cost of labour is the total cost including all the taxes, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax). 'Social security contributions' taxes in Sweden are above 30% which is not very low (self evident).

Claiming something which isn't a fact to be a fact is lying, fair enough?

[Fenster]

Before we do something any of us regrets.
I would never lie. And if you've seen my posts before you know im very keen of not breaking the rules of YOUR forum.

[Fenster]

Im not really sure what this Social contribution is. What thought you meant was said employer fee but it seems its not. However you're again quoting wikipedia but maybe im actually being duped by my "Friend Gov".
Right now i just feel lost in translation since whatever that is is obviiusly not called "Social contribution" on my tax papers.

[Piotr]

Not always.
But in this case yes i do!

When Kali was asked what is evil, Kali said that if a neighbour takes a cow from Kali this is evil.
When Kali was asked what is good, Kali said that if Kali takes a cow from a neighbour it is good.

When you ask me what I think about morals based on 'goal justifies the means', I say to hell with that kind of morals. My ethics are simple, there's no room for 'not always'. BE a good person, not ifs and .loving. buts. There's no goal which justifies robbery, and the fact that the goal is forcing me into state controlled version of happiness just makes it all more laughable.

And i meant that its statistically proven that its less frauds than victims. If you keep saying its not bring then me the evidence thats not wikipedia or bbc/cnn/fox.

No it isn't proven because you cannot prove it. All you can do is to claim it, and I can claim the opposite. I believe I'm closer to the truth here. I've seen a lot of .poo. in my life and I know the inner workings of socialism, the damage it does.

[Piotr]

Im not really sure what this Social contribution is. What thought you meant was said employer fee but it seems its not. However you're again quoting wikipedia but maybe im actually being duped by my "Friend Gov".
Right now i just feel lost in translation since whatever that is is obviiusly not called "Social contribution" on my tax papers.

If you read the Wikipedia page it should become quite obvious.

[Fenster]

The number of people employed by the job finding agency  heavily outweighs the number of people that stay on the wellfare.
Same with people that have health issues and get wellfare until they get better. More people go back to work than the amount that stays on wellfare until they actually retire.

[Piotr]

Before we do something any of us regrets.
I would never lie. And if you've seen my posts before you know im very keen of not breaking the rules of YOUR forum.

Is claiming that untrue statement is a fact lying? Yes.
Can I prove that you claimed something to be untrue as a fact? I just did.
Is punishment mandatory? No, you need a victim ;]

[Piotr]

The number of people employed by the job finding agency  heavily outweighs the number of people that stay on the wellfare.
Same with people that have health issues and get wellfare until they get better. More people go back to work than the amount that stays on wellfare until they actually retire.

Would it be the same if not for government interference in the job market? No, 9 of 10 of the unemployed people now on benefits would be working.

Would the sick people die if not for the government interference in the medical services market? No, their savings and private insurances and families and charities and last but not least the technology lost because of socialisms' inefficiency would save them.

[Fenster]

I have read the article and im ready to respond i just want to know we're not posting over eachothers heads anymore
So tell me when i can go

[Piotr]

Ready when you are

[Fenster]

This is the 30% with an increase to 50% after 330000sek tax i was talking about. Its always cut from your wage and it says so in your monthly payment documents:
"The first kind are taxes that employers are required to withhold from employees' wages, also known as withholding tax, pay-as-you-earn tax (PAYE), or pay-as-you-go tax (PAYG) and often covering advance payment of income tax, social security contributions, and various insurances (e.g., unemployment and disability)."

Second post coming soon.

[Fenster]

And this is the "Employer fee" i was talking about: "The second kind is a tax that is paid from the employer's own funds and that is directly related to employing a worker. These can consist of fixed charges or be proportionally linked to an employee's pay. The charges paid by the employer usually cover the employer's funding of the social security system, and other insurance programs."

I cant say exactly how high or low the second part "employer fee" is. I just know that everyone agrees on that it covers very little once you get it back. Your pension for example. Unless you invest personally this is where it comes from. And it usually is pretty slim unless you're a ceo etc... Or you've had a private pension savings account going.

[Piotr]

It is oppressive because it forces me to do something against my will. Notice how incompatible this whole idea of taxation is with iMtG Law.

[Fenster]

It is oppressive because it forces me to do something against my will. Notice how incompatible this whole idea of taxation is with iMtG Law.

Well yeah. I get that. But arent you forced to do many things against your will?
If you want to be completely free you need to be able to live on by your own hand. Grow your own food. Build your own house. Heal your own wounds. But society doesnt work this way.
In society each brings his own end to the table then everyone shares. Now not everyone gets the same size portion. Not by far. The way the modern tax system works is that it forces the people around the table to share a little bit more equal. That way everyone gets better. And can bring more food to the table next time.
And this does work. If it didnt it wouldnt be present in nearly every democratic country in the world.

A goverment cant exist without this system.
The useage of the system differs from country to country. In some places its abused. In some it works really well. Say whatever you want about Swedens tax rates. But Its still a .loving. amazing place to live. And im honored and glad to be able to give back to my country and my fellow countrymen this way.

Its nor perfect. Its not fair. Is it the best way to deal with society right now in our time?
I would say it is.
You would sat its not.

Oppressive? No. You dont have to work and earn money and pay taxes. Feel free to sustain yourself without a goverments support. Its not illegal.

Obligatory if you want to live the way we do? Yes. I can't see it working any other way.

But i am maybe being narrow minded. And i feel we've strayed too far from the original subject.

I want to end with saying its been fun and healthy to have this discussion with you.
And i have gained a new perspective on things i didnt have before

I hope i have not offended.