Odd news

[Fenster]

Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.

Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.

[Piotr]

Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.

Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.

Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.

No I cannot change it by voting.

[Fenster]

Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.

Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.

Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.

No I cannot change it by voting.

Well would you rather have privatized everything with 0 taxes?
A privately funded police, no safety net of any kind other than insurance companies.
A goverment composed of only private companies?
An extreme scenario maybe but you know what i mean.

And if you're curious its 30% off wages.
Its lower if you dont reach a certain yearly income. And higher if you have a (very) high yearly income.
Then theres a tax on all wares 25% wich is included in the price. This results in slightly higher prices ofcourse but its basically weighed up by how high wages are. (After taxes even).

[Piotr]

Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.

Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.

Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.

No I cannot change it by voting.

Well would you rather have privatized everything with 0 taxes?
A privately funded police, no safety net of any kind other than insurance companies.
A goverment composed of only private companies?
An extreme scenario maybe but you know what i mean.

And if you're curious its 30% off wages.
Its lower if you dont reach a certain yearly income. And higher if you have a (very) high yearly income.
Then theres a tax on all wares 25% wich is included in the price. This results in slightly higher prices ofcourse but its basically weighed up by how high wages are. (After taxes even).

Police can be paid off the land tax. No income taxes are necessary. All the rest cannot be sensibly argued that is common good.
There should be no safety net other than the one you are willing to pay for.
Government of private companies? No, why? I believe the optimal form of government is nomocracy.

No it's not 30%, not even close, but this is probably not the place to explain about all the stealth taxes.

No it is not weighted up by high wages, wages do not come from government. You miss the point that if you didn't have the government such oppressive as you've got, your wages would have tripled.

[Fenster]

Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.

Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.

Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.

No I cannot change it by voting.

Well would you rather have privatized everything with 0 taxes?
A privately funded police, no safety net of any kind other than insurance companies.
A goverment composed of only private companies?
An extreme scenario maybe but you know what i mean.

And if you're curious its 30% off wages.
Its lower if you dont reach a certain yearly income. And higher if you have a (very) high yearly income.
Then theres a tax on all wares 25% wich is included in the price. This results in slightly higher prices ofcourse but its basically weighed up by how high wages are. (After taxes even).

Police can be paid off the land tax. No income taxes are necessary. All the rest cannot be sensibly argued that is common good.
There should be no safety net other than the one you are willing to pay for.
Government of private companies? No, why? I believe the optimal form of government is nomocracy.

No it's not 30%, not even close, but this is probably not the place to explain about all the stealth taxes.

No it is not weighted up by high wages, wages do not come from government. You miss the point that if you didn't have the government such oppressive as you've got, your wages would have tripled.

How come a booster pack costs roughly the same here as in countries with lower, BAT i think its called?
And tripple wage??
Im sorry but you are way off course!
The income tax is at 30%.
Then there are more additional taxes for many things, yes. But "stealth" taxes i have no idea what you're talking about.

I work in a .poopy. job. I have a pre tax pay of 90 Sek per hour. This is minimum wage in my "line of work" (Theater and cinema union. Worst union ever btw...)
30% of that goes away as taxes. The rest i get straight into my hand.
I work very little and my income depends on how much exactly i work but usually i get 7000 Sek after taxes in disposable income on an avarage month. Still taking into account i work little. Now im fine with that and i get around with rent and bills and still have money left over. Sure id have 3000sek more a month without income taxes but what do i have now?
I can read my way up to university level without any extra fees. If i get hurt i have free treatment for my injuries at hospitals.
If i lose my job i get a very low wellfare pay as long as i keep looking for a new job through the goverment funded job finding agency.

Here are some usual arguments i hear.
"Why should you pay tax when you earn enough to pay for these things yourself?"
Yes sure but what if you were in my spot and vice versa? I would still pay my taxes to help you come back and when im in trouble you'd do the same!
"The wellfare system is being abused by many people, taking my money!"
Yes but for every person who cheats 9 other who needs it get back on their feet and can find a place in society again wich will compensate for the loss by this 1 scumbag! (Not to mention the system is always being worked on to prevent these frauds.)

And its not like the money is going down the pockets of our elected officials more than an income based on the work they do.

Its all about ideals. Would you let the poor man fall down the mountain just because it'd let you reach the top sooner?

Im in no way a communist and i believe in a free market but taxes are in my opinion a good thing.

I know what i've said wont sway your opinion. But atleast i hope you see the reasoning behind mine.

[Fenster]

Oh and i think i realized what you meant by ghost taxes!
I cant say i have much knowledge on the subject but its things like tax on electricity, water etc etc...

I suppose that it can relate to my former arguments.

But yes it is "more expensive" to live in Sweden. In my opinion its worth it however to have a higher quality of life.

[Piotr]

Stealth tax is for example when people fail to realise how much tax on wages is paid by employer, without understanding that all of it is actually paid by them.

I had some proper laugh when you swapped 9 with 1
Man, I can stand many lies but claiming that .loving. socialism is effective at what it does is not one of them. It is 9 to 1 not 1 to 9.

You say ideals. Excellent. I believe no goal justifies the means. I believe that 'Forceful extortion of private property is an evil act' is a self evident truth. I believe in Ultimate Law as the basic ethic and law system of human interaction. These are my ideals which explain why I believe Swedish tax system to be infamously oppressive. Makes sense?

[Fenster]

I want to apologize because I got carried away and took it too personal!

Taxes are obligatory wich may be considered a bad thing but in the end it depends on what your goverment does with it. It's hard to accept your money being taken when it doesnt seem to do anything. I dont know how it is in England but now you know how it is in sweden.
And don't say its otherwise because I know it isnt!
I mean you can ask Whitedrake maybe. He's from norway wich is one of the richest countries in the world but is very right wing.
But i think its pretty "succesfull"

[Fenster]

I think the swedish tax system has been overexagurated (how the hell do i spell that??)
Take the Danish taxes for example. They have 50% income tax! Sweden has just become an icon in western media due to a strong socialist political background.

[Piotr]

When a thug holds a gun to my wife's head and asks for my wallet, is it obligatory to give the wallet to him? Is it obligatory if the thug just threatens to put me in jail instead? I couldn't give a .love. what the thug does with my wallet as I don't believe means are justified by goals. In any case I prefer to educate my children myself, not at my own expense by the thug. I don't believe in the thugs idea of quality of life either.

Even Wikipedia says your tax on wages is 48% but some stealth taxes are more difficult to prove.

Discussing .politics. is my lifelong hobby, please do not take it personal at all

[Fenster]

When a thug holds a gun to my wife's head and asks for my wallet, is it obligatory to give the wallet to him? Is it obligatory if the thug just threatens to put me in jail instead? I couldn't give a .love. what the thug does with my wallet as I don't believe means are justified by goals. In any case I prefer to educate my children myself, not at my own expense by the thug. I don't believe in the thugs idea of quality of life either.

Even Wikipedia says your tax on wages is 48% but some stealth taxes are more difficult to prove.

Discussing .politics. is my lifelong hobby, please do not take it personal at all

Ok wikipedia, not the most accurate source.
But i did look around and after you've earned 330000 sek (yearly) you get an increased tax ob everything you earn after to 50%
So it is possible that the 48% is the avrage wich sounds about right.

Also the gunpoint analogy (i really hope thats the word) is pretty flawed.
You're not forced in any way. It just happens.
You get a job, pay is 100 sek a month (theoretically) then you get 70 at pay day.
And it says in your Payment Specification paper how much you got before and after taxes.
Its not like you get 100 and then a bill for 30 that says "Tax bill".
How about this for a visual comparrison!
Every day after work you give this guy named "Gov" 30% of your pay. You dont like it. You could use that money. But Gov demands it anyways. Now one day you hurt your leg but Guv gives you the money to get it fixed.
Thanks i guess but i would have had that money anyways if you hadnt taken it!
The day after that you follow Gov after you've paid him and you notice that the money you gave him he uses to help ol' homless Joe to get a house! Jobless Sue to get employed! And that crack in the road on Mainstreet. He even puts money in your childrens college fund!
Although some of the money is lost too a strong wind, in the end it did a lot of good.

Yes money is lost to fraud and cheaters.
And some goverment programs are just completely uneccesary. But before you go and claim that its 1 helped for every 9 swindler id like you to back that up with facts. I live here and my family and friends live here. Never have i heard them say that the frauds outnumber the real victims! Even the ones that argue against high taxes!
So check your facts before you pull them out of your bottom.

[Piotr]

When a thug holds a gun to my wife's head and asks for my wallet, is it obligatory to give the wallet to him? Is it obligatory if the thug just threatens to put me in jail instead? I couldn't give a .love. what the thug does with my wallet as I don't believe means are justified by goals. In any case I prefer to educate my children myself, not at my own expense by the thug. I don't believe in the thugs idea of quality of life either.

Even Wikipedia says your tax on wages is 48% but some stealth taxes are more difficult to prove.

Discussing .politics. is my lifelong hobby, please do not take it personal at all

Ok wikipedia, not the most accurate source.
But i did look around and after you've earned 330000 sek (yearly) you get an increased tax ob everything you earn after to 50%
So it is possible that the 48% is the avrage wich sounds about right.

Also the gunpoint analogy (i really hope thats the word) is pretty flawed.
You're not forced in any way. It just happens.
You get a job, pay is 100 sek a m

Yes Wikipedia has a left bias, not a reliable source at all, but they cannot cheat on math. You still fail to understand that 'social contributions' paid by employers is tax on your wages. Or do you believe that if I call you stupid it makes you somehow less intelligent?

It just happens? Explain the logic please. Again, if I say 'it just happens' doesn't magically change it from 'private property extortion' to, hmm, what exactly? If I refuse to pay this extortion called tax, there will be government coming over to my house to forcefully seize my property. True or false?

[Fenster]

I accidentally hit post before i was done

[Fenster]

Oh and that social contribution is added above my pay. My employer pays my wage per my contract then an additional "Employer fee" straight to the goverment. I never see this money but its not deducted from my wage.
This is a fact.
Another fact is that this fee is very low however.

[Piotr]

Yes money is lost to fraud and cheaters.
And some goverment programs are just completely uneccesary. But before you go and claim that its 1 helped for every 9 swindler id like you to back that up with facts. I live here and my family and friends live here. Never have i heard them say that the frauds outnumber the real victims! Even the ones that argue against high taxes!
So check your facts before you pull them out of your bottom.

Why of course you will never hear them tell that! You have to pull your head out of their bottom and start looking for yourself, man

Do you agree that goal justify the means?