Making Trades Safer

[Gorzo]

I would like to devote a thread to how we can make trades safer and more secure. Please add suggestions here and give your input on any/all suggestions!

One idea that has come up a couple times is to have a moderator "middle-man" as an insurance backup for larger, more valuable trades. Instead of mailing to your trader, you would mail your trade to a mod, along with an addressed and stamped envelope. Your fellow trader would mail to the same mod. One the mod receives both, he will mail the trades.  If one fails to send theirs, the side who did send would get theirs back, courtesy of the mod in the middle.  The downside to this is obviously slower delivery time (going through a middle man) and slightly increased postage cost. Thoughts?

Suggestions?

[Juggalonoke]

I know this is what I will be doing from now on for any trades over like 50 in value because everyone of the "money" trades I've made where with "trusted traders" and I still got jacked for alot of value in cards.

[Wally]

I did also suggest something like an escrow account system in a thread below this called PayPal.
I guess it still comes down to trust, and hopefully you can trust the middle man.

[Xaol]

I have to say, I did try and get some support for a changed trade system before. I personally believe the trusted traders list is too jumbled up to be of any use, and same with the u trustworthy traders list. For those to be effective, they need one locked thread with one post each, of a list of each trustworthy and untrustworthy trader, respectively. The way it works now is a hassle to go through to find trustworthy people, and to affirm they aren't untrustworthy.
There is a rumour that MetalMadMan has ripped people in the past. I am unsure if this is true or not. If so, I think better administrative action should have been taken. However, without evidence of this fact, I cannot say.
I think to make trading simpler, a middle-man is probably not the best method. I've been trading on other sites for years, and I know that when you have a trade over $40 in value, the best thing to do is put Delivery Confirmation on it. Never, ever, ever simul send with someone who has no references. Even if they seem like nice people.
A middle-man I guess is an ok idea, but I think having the other person send to you first works a lot better. If we had a number next to our names which went up with each successful trade, then that helps out a lot. Anyone with less refs would send first, no exceptions. Even if they are just one trade behind. This is the system that the Magic Online Trading League uses, and I think it needs implementation here.

I'd like to thank the mods for their support through this. Gorzo, you've been exceptionally communicative and helpful throughout this whole process.

I hope the ideas I've proposed sound good to you all. Like I said, other sites use it and I have never (in over 100 trades) had an issue with it. I'm really sad this happened, but I think if we learn from it and construct a better trade model, it won't be an issue in the future.

[Piotr]

It was brought to my attention that MetalMadMan (the ripper who has now ripped me of over $150) was originally banned for ripping. He was then given a chance to redeem himself by the mods.

Do you have anything to back this claim?

[Juggalonoke]

It was brought to my attention that MetalMadMan (the ripper who has now ripped me of over $150) was originally banned for ripping. He was then given a chance to redeem himself by the mods.

Do you have anything to back this claim?

I don't know if he dose all I know is someone made a mention that he was "thatoneguyjoey" or something of the like but from what I've seen it's all just speculation

[Rass]

It was brought to my attention that MetalMadMan (the ripper who has now ripped me of over $150) was originally banned for ripping. He was then given a chance to redeem himself by the mods.

Do you have anything to back this claim?

I bumped it in the trade section

[Xaol]

It was brought to my attention that MetalMadMan (the ripper who has now ripped me of over $150) was originally banned for ripping. He was then given a chance to redeem himself by the mods.

Do you have anything to back this claim?

He was "thatoneguyjoey" to the best of my knowledge.

[Piotr]

thatoneguyjoey was never banned nor was he given a second chance. You falsely accuse mods for wrongdoings. Do you understand this is against the law?

[Kaleo42]

Be careful of rumors and speculation in the written word, for it will more than likely be precieved as confident truth until proven otherwise. The severity of this situation has fueled a lot of this and I would like to kindly remind you that if you dont know it for sure then dont say it or if you do make it very clear that you are unsure of the information.

[Coffee Vampire]

I like the middle-man idea. I suggest having at least two of them, so one doesn't get clogged up in mail. This could cause mail to be lost among other possibilities. I think three would be ideal, though.

As for addresses, we could have a stickied thread naming the three middle-men, their mailing addresses, how many trades they each have in progress, how many trades maximum each can do at a time, and other useful info.

This would also eliminate the need for the trusted/untrusted trader threads, which are unfortunately very cluttered.

If needed or wanted by traders, maybe we could make a new streamlined trusted/untrusted thread. No idea how this could be done but just putting ideas out there!

[Xaol]

thatoneguyjoey was never banned nor was he given a second chance. You falsely accuse mods for wrongdoings. Do you understand this is against the law?

Edited accordingly.

[Mikefrompluto]

An idea I had to help prevent this situation from happening again is to make a locked topic, and once a scammer has been suspected, mods can convene and investigate, and if they are found as a scammer, the mods can post the person's real name and maybe a partial address in the locked topic. Just for a reference on who to look out for. I know there's the trusted and untrustworthy traders threads, but as mentioned above, those are cluttered, and doesnt stop someone from just making a new username and ripping off more people, which is the case in this situation.

I know this isn't fail-safe and can be worked around by the person using a PO box or a friend/family member's name and address, but combined with some of the ideas and tactics listed above, trading can possibly once again become as safe as it was in the past.

[Piotr]

Keep the mods and me out of it, man. We enforce iMtG Law which have no power outside this forum, as much as I'd like to be otherwise. Otherwise, because there's probably a law in some obscure country like Poland or UK which says I cannot reveal the identity of the thief, or else. Makes sense?

[Mikefrompluto]

Makes perfect sense, and as I said in another thread where I made this suggestion, it probably is crossing some kind of legal boundaries. But alas, there's no harm in sharing ideas.