Infinite Undying

[cltrn81]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it.  But {hex parasite} can remove the +1/1 counter from your undying creatures so they keep returning from the GY.

[BlackJester]

Good one!
How about {Phyrexian Hydra} + undying. That thing REALLY can't die. XD

[cltrn81]

I see a deck forming

[Greg54js]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it.  But {hex parasite} can remove the +1/1 counter from your undying creatures so they keep returning from the GY.

I mentioned it in the dark ascension spoilers but I'm glad you posted it too

[cltrn81]

I thought someone else could have said it somewhere...it is an obvious one.  But figured I would post it to point it out.

[Greg54js]

I thought someone else could have said it somewhere...it is an obvious one.  But figured I would post it to point it out.

Thanks you saved me some typing

[Cllzzrd]

Would {heartless summoning} make anything with undying unkillable unless your opponent has a {graft digger's cage}?

[Karrthus]

Undying specifies that the not have a +1/+1 counter. {Heartless Summoning} doesn't give counters. Even if a creature with a +1/+1 counter was givin a -1/-1 counter and then died he wouldn't come back.

[Greg54js]

Karrthus is right. The creatures get no counters so if they die the +1/1 counter still goes on them

[BlackJester]

Undying specifies that the not have a +1/+1 counter. {Heartless Summoning} doesn't give counters.

Right.

Even if a creature with a +1/+1 counter was givin a -1/-1 counter and then died he wouldn't come back.

Not exactly. If the -1/-1 counter doesn't kill it right away, then the two types of counters would cancel each other out. But if a creature gets enough -1/-1 counters to kill it, say from a {Blightsteel Colossus} then SBE will destroy the creature at the exact same time as the counters and the creature will stay dead.

[Cllzzrd]

So you would have to have something that puts the -1/-1 counters on it instead of just saying everything gets -1/-1.

Put undying on {mikeaus the lunarch} and tap him to death and make your stuff huge by taking +1/+1 counters off him? Could that work?

[BlackJester]

Yep!

But, if {Mikaeus, the Lunarch} with 4 +1/+1 counters blocked a {Chained Throatseeker}, he would die and not come back.

[Karrthus]

I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.

[Mentonin]

I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.

no way. First of, you can choose which counters to proliferate. Second u can only proliferate 1 type of counter for each permanent. Last of all, the counters cancel each other.

[BlackJester]

I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.

CR State-Based Actions
CR704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.

However, (hold on to your socks) if you play a spell like {Grim Affliction} the proliferate would happen after the counter was put on but before State-base affects would remove them.  So, this may have been a weird corner-case.

Do you remember exactly what happened?