Delver Dead in RtR?

[ChrisRodriguez]

Is delver dead? I don't think it is. There will still be ppl trying to build and play delver. Is it a tier 1 deck...No. The lost of {ponder} makes sure that happens. It will be less consistent deck and the lost of the Phyrexian mana makes sure it will not stay UW. I think splashing {R} could help the deck but not make it more consistent delver flips.

[Elitehalo360]

Loss of {Vapor Snag} {Gut Shot} and {Mana Leak} hurts...

But it's {Ponder} that really just kills Delver decks as they pre-RtR

{index} could replace ponder, and I think red blue izzet delver will dominate again.

[ChrisRodriguez]

Loss of {Vapor Snag} {Gut Shot} and {Mana Leak} hurts...

But it's {Ponder} that really just kills Delver decks as they pre-RtR

{index} could replace ponder, and I think red blue izzet delver will dominate again.

{index} could never replace {ponder} just saying

[Greg54js]

This is true. Ponder gave you the card draw. Index... Well let's just say it falls short.

[Elitehalo360]

This is true. Ponder gave you the card draw. Index... Well let's just say it falls short.

Boo hoo you don't get a draw, index lets you plan out your next 5 moves, I can't tell you how many times I've pondered for a land draw and not seen it in the next 3 and be set back from only having two open while running 21 lands

[ChrisRodriguez]

This is true. Ponder gave you the card draw. Index... Well let's just say it falls short.

Boo hoo you don't get a draw, index lets you plan out your next 5 moves, I can't tell you how many times I've pondered for a land draw and not seen it in the next 3 and be set back from only having two open while running 21 lands

The problem is that {index} doesn't provide tempo. Tempo is what delver lives off of.

[cltrn81]

This is true. Ponder gave you the card draw. Index... Well let's just say it falls short.

Boo hoo you don't get a draw, index lets you plan out your next 5 moves, I can't tell you how many times I've pondered for a land draw and not seen it in the next 3 and be set back from only having two open while running 21 lands

ponder is better hands down, you get to draw a card which is an obvious advantage, but you can also shuffle to reset your deck which is nice for resetting your deck

Yes rearranging 5 is better than 3 but ponder lets you draw that card on top when you need it instead of making you wait a turn.  I would not go so far to say {index} is to {ponder} as {shivan oasis} is to {taiga}.....my point is the oasis makes you wait a turn and so does index.

[Monrodesign]

This is true. Ponder gave you the card draw. Index... Well let's just say it falls short.

Boo hoo you don't get a draw, index lets you plan out your next 5 moves, I can't tell you how many times I've pondered for a land draw and not seen it in the next 3 and be set back from only having two open while running 21 lands

The problem is that {index} doesn't provide tempo. Tempo is what delver lives off of.

I agree.

I use my {Evolving Wilds} to shuffle away a bad {Index} but its not enough.

[Bcstang]

Splashing red in my opinion is the right answer here, adding {bonfire of the damned} and {index} plus 2 main deck {niv-mizzet dracogenius} makes a very gross mid-late game

[Guitello]

Splashing red in my opinion is the right answer here, adding {bonfire of the damned} and {index} plus 2 main deck {niv-mizzet dracogenius} makes a very gross mid-late game

I would not play {Index}. Without the shuffle of ponder, it's telling you if your F'd or not based on what you will draw. From what I have seen in testing UR Delver falls short to other popular decks like Jund zombies, 5 Color Control, and GW Tokens