New Liliana and Anger of the Gods interactions

Started by sithantic, July 13, 2015, 10:49:15 AM

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sithantic

{Liliana, Heretical Healer}
{Anger of the Gods}

If I have a creature + Liliana on the board, and my opponent casts Anger, will Liliana get to flip?

redwolv

Assuming you have another creature with 3 or less toughtness. The simple answer is no.

Anger will deal all the damage at the same time, state based actions will kill liliana and the other creature at the same time. Now if you notice the example for 603.6d you might notice the example of the arifact healing as it does see the creatures die. Liliana will see the other creature die, the issue here is that while the arifact does not have to be on the battlefield at resolution of its ability, lilliana does.

Editing to add rules and clarify.

603.6c: Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren't limited to, "When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . ." or "Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . ." An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone "from anywhere" is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.

603.6d: Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.

Remillo

It doesn't even have to go that far, Red.

Anger exiles creatures that would die from it's damage, causing them to never even 'die'.  Dying specifically means going from the battlefield to the graveyard.  Since that action is replaced with exiling the creature instead, nothing that cares about creatures dying will trigger.  Liliana won't flip even if she survived.

redwolv

Quote from: Remillo on July 13, 2015, 12:35:59 PM
It doesn't even have to go that far, Red.

Anger exiles creatures that would die from it's damage, causing them to never even 'die'.  Dying specifically means going from the battlefield to the graveyard.  Since that action is replaced with exiling the creature instead, nothing that cares about creatures dying will trigger.  Liliana won't flip even if she survived.

Derp, i forgot about the fact it exiles things it kills.