Deathrender / Obliterate Resolution

[KILLERBEE]

K so today in a game I had a {Deathrender} equipped to a creature  and I played an {Obliterate} would I still get the creature from the Deathrenders effect?

[scarsabrex]

You get the creature but deathrender will stay in the grave

[KILLERBEE]

Is that 100% for sure?

[Keyeto]

Is that 100% for sure?

It's correct. {Deathrender} will trigger and give you your creature, but cannot attach to it since it's in the graveyard at that point.

[Paraluke]

Okay, I stand corrected (from another post).

[swallowtail]

Is that 100% for sure?

It's correct. {Deathrender} will trigger and give you your creature, but cannot attach to it since it's in the graveyard at that point.

Keyeto, could you please explain why, for idiots like me that don't have a huge amount of experience in the game? Obliterate goes onto the stack, and resolves... (Right so far lol?) When it resolves, everything gets destroyed at exactly the same time, yes? Are there rules about triggered abilities and concurrent destruction? How does that work?

Not doubting you, just want to understand better.

[Keyeto]

Is that 100% for sure?

It's correct. {Deathrender} will trigger and give you your creature, but cannot attach to it since it's in the graveyard at that point.

Keyeto, could you please explain why, for idiots like me that don't have a huge amount of experience in the game? Obliterate goes onto the stack, and resolves... (Right so far lol?) When it resolves, everything gets destroyed at exactly the same time, yes? Are there rules about triggered abilities and concurrent destruction? How does that work?

Not doubting you, just want to understand better.

It's actually pretty simple. When things have a "dies" type of trigger, they'll go off, even if a bunch are going off at once. You can't skip out on triggers.

When the creature dies (the one {Deathrender} is equipped to), the trigger will go off. When it resolves, you get to put a creature on to the field, and then attach Deathrender to it if able. After the creature is out on the field, the ability will try to attach Deathrender to it, and fail, since it is in the graveyard. That's really all there is to it!

The important thing to remember is that its ability doesn't just stop because its destroyed. The conditions of the trigger were met (equipped creature dying), so the ability will go off.

[swallowtail]

Is that 100% for sure?

It's correct. {Deathrender} will trigger and give you your creature, but cannot attach to it since it's in the graveyard at that point.

Keyeto, could you please explain why, for idiots like me that don't have a huge amount of experience in the game? Obliterate goes onto the stack, and resolves... (Right so far lol?) When it resolves, everything gets destroyed at exactly the same time, yes? Are there rules about triggered abilities and concurrent destruction? How does that work?

Not doubting you, just want to understand better.

It's actually pretty simple. When things have a "dies" type of trigger, they'll go off, even if a bunch are going off at once. You can't skip out on triggers.

When the creature dies (the one {Deathrender} is equipped to), the trigger will go off. When it resolves, you get to put a creature on to the field, and then attach Deathrender to it if able. After the creature is out on the field, the ability will try to attach Deathrender to it, and fail, since it is in the graveyard. That's really all there is to it!

The important thing to remember is that its ability doesn't just stop because its destroyed. The conditions of the trigger were met (equipped creature dying), so the ability will go off.

Gotcha. As it dies, it still has the deathrender attached, so the trigger fires, yes? I was thinking it's connected to it hitting the g/y, but it's not, it's when it dies, which is earlier.

So let's say you also had a creature at the same time with a triggered ability that said something like "when another creature dies, put a 1/1 zombie on the battlefield".

My thinking is that would trigger with the obliterate going off and killing the equipped creature, even though this other creature with the zombie trigger is also being destroyed - yes?

So, when a bunch of triggers go off at once, who chooses the order they go on the stack? I'd imagine there would be some concurrent triggers where the order they resolve could be better one way than another...

[MementoMori]

"Hitting the graveyard" *is* dying.

When multiple triggers occur simultaneously, they go on the stack in APNAP (active player, inactive player) order. If it's a multiplayer game, it goes in turn order, starting with the active player. If a single player controls multiple triggers, that player puts them on the stack in any order when it's his or her turn to do so.

That means if you're the active player, your triggers will go on the stack first and resolve last.

[swallowtail]

I found the rule:

603.6d: Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.

[KILLERBEE]

I found the rule:

603.6d: Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.

What I get from that then is that I obliterate, my creature dies and deathrender activates, I bring the new creature out equipped to deathrender and then deathrender and the new creature follow into the graveyard.

[MementoMori]

No. {Obliterate} resolves and destroys everything once. It won't kill anything that wasn't on the field when it resolved.