The "untap upkeep draw"

[Slenderbro]

Is untap an automatic step?
If someone accidentally draws before they untap everything, is it a missed trigger?

[TheRagingMage]

No.  You must untap all permanents that are allowed to untap during your untap step.  Let me find a rule for that.

[TheRagingMage]

502.2.: Second, the active player determines which permanents he or she controls will untap. Then he or she untaps them all simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. Normally, all of a player's permanents untap, but effects can keep one or more of a player's permanents from untapping.
It is a part of the untap step, so it can't be skipped.  Just like you can't skip your combat phase if you "forget."  (You can forget to attack, but you can't skip the whole step or phase.)

[Slenderbro]

Kk there's a guy at our fnm that hassles the newer players about it and it's really getting on my nerves.

Thx

[Kaleo42]

It is a serious problem and can get you a game loss at a competitive event. However fnm is a regular event not a competitive event. So I suppose it all boils down to how he is hasseling.

[Slenderbro]

It is a serious problem and can get you a game loss at a competitive event. However fnm is a regular event not a competitive event. So I suppose it all boils down to how he is hasseling.

He chucked someone's deck across the room over it. If it was my store he'd be banned.

[Kaleo42]

It is a serious problem and can get you a game loss at a competitive event. However fnm is a regular event not a competitive event. So I suppose it all boils down to how he is hasseling.

He chucked someone's deck across the room over it. If it was my store he'd be banned.

Agreed

[Mikefrompluto]

I played a guy at FNM once that had {staff of nin} in play. He drew his his first card, played something, I responded to it with a counter, then he said "Oh I forgot to draw my extra from the staff." I refused to let him. Why? Because he had already played something and I responded to it. It was way too late in the turn for all that.

[Millionlittlee]

I played a guy at FNM once that had {staff of nin} in play. He drew his his first card, played something, I responded to it with a counter, then he said "Oh I forgot to draw my extra from the staff." I refused to let him. Why? Because he had already played something and I responded to it. It was way too late in the turn for all that.

He could have said I forgot to draw at my draw step so you can't refuse him since staff let's him draw first

[Mikefrompluto]

I played a guy at FNM once that had {staff of nin} in play. He drew his his first card, played something, I responded to it with a counter, then he said "Oh I forgot to draw my extra from the staff." I refused to let him. Why? Because he had already played something and I responded to it. It was way too late in the turn for all that.

He could have said I forgot to draw at my draw step so you can't refuse him since staff let's him draw first

This is true. However he did say he forgot to draw from the staff.

[Millionlittlee]

I played a guy at FNM once that had {staff of nin} in play. He drew his his first card, played something, I responded to it with a counter, then he said "Oh I forgot to draw my extra from the staff." I refused to let him. Why? Because he had already played something and I responded to it. It was way too late in the turn for all that.

He could have said I forgot to draw at my draw step so you can't refuse him since staff let's him draw first

This is true. However he did say he forgot to draw from the staff.

Don't deny me from denying you. Who do you think you are? Lol!

[Kaleo42]

Failure to maintain gamestate is usually a warning. Failure to maintain gamestate in hopes of an advantage is a game or sometimes even match loss.

Missed triggers are often left to the opponent to decide if it is with a resonable amount if time. In the case of staff of nin a missed trigger is not so bad "i forgot to draw for my turn" would be a gamestate error and game loss.

[Mikefrompluto]

Anyone know the actual consequence of this in a competitive game?  Is it a game rules violation?  I've only gotten a couple of violations before..the first for attacking with two {Lingering Souls} tokens when I had two {Sorin, Lord of Innistrad} emblems out and telling the guy to take four (should have taken six).  Realized next turn and was curious so I asked a judge and both of us got failure to maintain game state violations (just a warning).  The other time I drew off a {Think Twice} and accidentally picked up two cards.  Told the guy right away and got a warning for that.  I would think skipping upkeep or draw steps would be worse.  Still, at an FNM no one should rage over it.  Really, no one should rage over MtG period.

I didnt rage over it. The only reason I said anything was because he already moved on to the first main phase, played something, then tried to draw another card. I don't think I was in the wrong for that. If anything it was showing him to be more aware of what he has in play.

[Mikefrompluto]

Ah okay. I just didnt want to come across as being a douche hahah.

[Wally]

For our newer players, I usually just reach across the table and untap for them when they are looking at their new card. Usually saying "untap, upkeep, draw". They usually cotton on pretty quick when you do it a few times.
I don't like being hard on them, and it's usually all done in a fun way. Plus they are learning a game we all know and love. Teaching them the correct way is always important, but lets not take the fun away from playing.

Also the other one is when they tap mana for stuff, usually I just ask, how much does that spell cost, and how many they have left untapped. It works a treat, and you don't come across as a condescending jackass.

:)