Dungeon Geists

[BrosEler123]

If you play a  {Dungeon Geists} and then tap a target creature, and then  {Cloudshift}  {Dungeon Geists} ad pick a new target creature. Are both creatures under  {Dungeon Geists}' ability?

[Gorzo]

No, once the geists leave the battlefield it severs all ties it had connected to the first creature it was connected with. It comes back in as a new object, and the new creature it taps is it's one and only prisoner.

The first creature is free to untap at its controller's next untap step as normal again.

RESOLVED

[Coffee Vampire]

I know what you may be thinking: that dungeon geists is like fiend hunter. Here is the combo for {Fiend Hunter}:
- cast find hunter
- trigger goes on stack, targetting creature #1
- in response to the trigger, flicker fiend hunter
- fiend hunter leaves the bf and comes back
- trigger resolves. Since the old fiend hunter that originally targeted creature #1 is gone, he can neve leave the battlefield, causing it to return.
- new trigger goes on stack, targeting creature #2
- trigger resolves, and the creature is exiled until fiend hunter leaves the battlefield.

The fiend hunter trick works because the game checks for an action to cause the creature to come back. However the old fiend hunter cannot preform the action (leaving the battlefield) because he already left the battlefield and turned into a new object becore the creature was exiled. Now look at the {Dungeon Geists} scenario and see why it doesn't work the same:
- cast geists
- trigger goes off
- in response to the trigger, flicker geist, targeting creature #1
- geist leaves the bf and comes back
- trigger resolves. Creature #1 is tapped and a new trigger goes on the stack, targeting creature #2.
- next turn: creature #1 untaps normally, while creature #2 does not.
---
The reason it does not work the same as fiend hunter is that for dungeon geists, the game checks for a state of controlling dungeon geists, not for an action performed by dungeon geists. So when geists comes back after you flicker it, you still get to tap 2 creatures. But creature #1 will untap normally since you do not control the original dungeon geists that tapped it before he got flickered.

[Double-O-Scotch]

Does this mean if I tap out to kill {vorinclex} my land untaps as normal and pays no attention to vorinclex's ability?

[Coffee Vampire]

No, because it doesn't say "as log as you control vorinclex"

[Double-O-Scotch]

Ahhhh, I see...

[Kaleo42]

Nice work Coffee, +1 karma

[Coffee Vampire]

Why thank you kind sir! ^^ I'll pass it on to gorzo for getting it right first!

[Fishsticks123]

I know what you may be thinking: that dungeon geists is like fiend hunter. Here is the combo for {Fiend Hunter}:
- cast find hunter
- trigger goes on stack, targetting creature #1
- in response to the trigger, flicker fiend hunter
- fiend hunter leaves the bf and comes back
- trigger resolves. Since the old fiend hunter that originally targeted creature #1 is gone, he can neve leave the battlefield, causing it to return.
- new trigger goes on stack, targeting creature #2
- trigger resolves, and the creature is exiled until fiend hunter leaves the battlefield.

The fiend hunter trick works because the game checks for an action to cause the creature to come back. However the old fiend hunter cannot preform the action (leaving the battlefield) because he already left the battlefield and turned into a new object becore the creature was exiled. Now look at the {Dungeon Geists} scenario and see why it doesn't work the same:
- cast geists
- trigger goes off
- in response to the trigger, flicker geist, targeting creature #1
- geist leaves the bf and comes back
- trigger resolves. Creature #1 is tapped and a new trigger goes on the stack, targeting creature #2.
- next turn: creature #1 untaps normally, while creature #2 does not.
---
The reason it does not work the same as fiend hunter is that for dungeon geists, the game checks for a state of controlling dungeon geists, not for an action performed by dungeon geists. So when geists comes back after you flicker it, you still get to tap 2 creatures. But creature #1 will untap normally since you do not control the original dungeon geists that tapped it before he got flickered.

👏👏👏👏👏👏 wow, you got smarter since the last time I heard from you.