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Undying

Started by Jkenny, June 28, 2012, 01:05:40 AM

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Jkenny

How does undying work your creature dies and comes back with a 1/1 counter then if it dies again is it gone? And how does Mikaeus the unhallow work with undying too.

Coffee Vampire

Basically, when a creature with undying dies, it goes to the graveyard like a normal creature. But then right away it comes back. When it comes back, it has a +1/+1 counter. If a creature with undying dies while it has a +1/+1 counter, it will not come back. If it has ANY +1/+1 counters, it will stay in the graveyard.

If a creature with undying has a +1/+1 counter on it and you put a -1/-1 counter on it, they cancel out and it comes back when it dies.

Now for mikaeus. He states that all NON-HUMAN creatures you control have undying. This means that all the creatures you control that are not humans have the property that I have previously described in this post.

Also, he says that they also get +1/+1. Does this make the undying useless? I mean, they all have counters now right? Nope, wrong! Unless you see the word "counter", a creature does not get a counter. Mikaeus's ability is simply an effect that stays as long as he is on the battlefield. It doesn't actually give creatures a +1/+1 counter. So yes he does make creatures you control come back if they are not human.

Willthomjr

Your creature dies, goes to the graveyard ,comes back into play with a +1+1 counter on it ONLY if it doesn't have a +1+1 counter on it. Mikeaus gives all of your non humans this same ability.

BlackJester

One clairification: if a creature with undying has a +1/+1 counter on it, and you suddenly give it enough -1/-1 counters to kill it (think {Black Sun's Zenith}), then the creature will die simultaneously to the +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters annihilating each other.
The undying creature will ask "Did I have any +1/+1 counters just *before* I died?" Yes, so it doesn't come back.

Jkenny

Awesome thank you all very much

Ghebert

Furthermore, +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters do not, technically, "cancel" each other out. As far as power/toughness is concerned they do. But technically the creature has a +1/+1 AND a -1/-1 counter on it. So undying will not activate.

BlackJester

#6
Quote from: Ghebert on June 28, 2012, 01:56:48 PM
Furthermore, +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters do not, technically, "cancel" each other out. As far as power/toughness is concerned they do. But technically the creature has a +1/+1 AND a -1/-1 counter on it. So undying will not activate.
Equal numbers of -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters are removed as a State Based Action (CR704.5r).

Killacam304


Nobbert

Also, If you blink an "undead" creature it comes back into pay without the +1/+1 counter on it and can be "undead" again!
{restoration angel} and {geralf's messenger} is a nasty combo

cltrn81

Quote from: BlackJester on June 28, 2012, 01:58:45 PM
Quote from: Ghebert on June 28, 2012, 01:56:48 PM
Furthermore, +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters do not, technically, "cancel" each other out. As far as power/toughness is concerned they do. But technically the creature has a +1/+1 AND a -1/-1 counter on it. So undying will not activate.
Equal numbers of -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters are removed as a State Based Action (CR704.5r).
They are removed only if the placing of the -1/1 counters does not kill the creature.

Scenario 1:
A 1/1 creature is given a +1/1 counter and is now a 2/2......someone puts (2) -1/1 counters on it.  The creature dies with the +1/1 counter and the (2) -1/1 counters still on it.

Scenario 2:
A 1/1 creature is given a +1/1 counter and is now a 2/2.....someone puts a -1/1 counter on it.  The +1/1 and -1/1 counter cancel each other out and both are removed.....the creature becomes a 1/1 with no counters on it.