A while back, our beloved Death Garaa wrote an article on "sleepers", that is, cards that come out in a set at a low price and are predicted to rise for some reason.
I just made this thread so people could post what cards in m13 are probably sleepers, and why. I know it's a little too late for this and yes I will be making a similar thread for RTR.
One card I notice is {Farseek}. Due to shock lands probably returning, I don't see why any deck would not run this card (well not every deck but you know what I mean! ;)). I don't know of it will see a major price change but it will defs become more useful!!
Lol maybe it'll see a 500% increase from $0.02 to $0.10! :D
I'm honestly not sure what could come out on top from this core set... Lots of reprints, and I've been pretty good on calling out sleepers (AVR calls were {Wolfir Silverheart} and {Restoration Angel})
I'm interested to see what people think may 'break out' this set.
Well..everyone is thinking thundermaw will be rediculous ..but realistically there are 3 Decks it can fit into. Some sort of burn deck, a reanimator deck, and a pod deck..no other decks really have a spot or need for him..
To be honest I'm smelling a VERY good mythic vampire in RTR which could give the archetype the push it needs to really be compiettive. So get your hands on more nocturnes, this lonely guy sees them going up.
Another {Baron Sengir} Clint?
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
Probably not a sleeper. Maybe like delved where a bunch of people run it, and it's worth 5¢
Quote from: JaCe BeLeReN on July 24, 2012, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
Probably not a sleeper. Maybe like delved where a bunch of people run it, and it's worth 5¢
True. Either way, still really useful.
Quote from: CbStrad on July 25, 2012, 01:43:56 AM
See, I'm seeing {Odric, Master Tactician} as a contender here; they obviously made Blue a token-spam companion to White in M13, and with the Azorius returning in RTR, there should be enough control to back that up. Ol' Odric is sittin' real pretty right now XD
I agree with you here all the way. His ability is absurd for any white creature-heavy deck. Tokens, white weenie, U/W Control... Plus he stands up to the all-important {Lightning Bolt} test.
Only thing is, he's the feature of an intro pack. That puts his supply and ease of access through the roof. His price will probably never go much higher than it is, simply because there are a bajillion copies of him, in foil to boot. If not for that intro pack, I bet his value would be at least threefold.
I think that {Slumbering Dragon} is a sleeper. :P
No in all seriousness someone is going to find a combo that makes him ready turn three and it's going to be really popular. Just my opinion.
I could see {Jace's phantasm} being a $2-$3 card.
Quote from: Rasser on July 25, 2012, 02:37:37 AM
I could see {Jace's phantasm} being a $2-$3 card.
It's already going for >$1.
Quote from: Eryama on July 25, 2012, 02:17:59 AM
I think that {Slumbering Dragon} is a sleeper. :P
No in all seriousness someone is going to
find a combo that makes him ready turn
three and it's going to be really popular.
Just my opinion.
Already possible. Turn one dragon turn two travel prep. Turn 3 the miracle that puts 4 1/1 counters :)
I'm not so hot on {Jace's Phantasm}. You have to run a bunch of dead cards in order to get it off consistently, and most players would just like to exile cards with their {Snapcaster Mage}s.
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 05:29:32 AM
I'm not so hot on {Jace's Phantasm}. You have to run a bunch of dead cards in order to get it off consistently, and most players would just like to exile cards with their {Snapcaster Mage}s.
Running the math on "mill" cards, it doesn't work out currently in the meta. A mill card, going against a 60 card deck, essentially makes the opponents life 60. The best card Mill has is {Mind Sculpt} which only equates to an {Incinerate} in terms of cost vs. life lost.
{Jace's Phantasm} is a good card vs. Delver, because it's an early 1/1 flyer you can trade to kill Delver. It's also good in an Delver mirror, because most of the time Delver gets sided vs. blue.
Mtg is, and always will be about racing. {Geist of Saint Traft} will always outrace mostly anything (which is why {Knight of Infamy} and {Knight of Glory} are so above the curve)
Quote from: CbStrad on July 25, 2012, 01:43:56 AM
See, I'm seeing {Odric, Master Tactician} as a contender here; they obviously made Blue a token-spam companion to White in M13, and with the Azorius returning in RTR, there should be enough control to back that up. Ol' Odric is sittin' real pretty right now XD
My friends and I have pulled 4 Odrics already...@__@ i kid you not. That card better be a sleeper or we'll be drowning in tacticians.
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
How is this any different than gather the townsfolk? Obviously just red. I don't see it as a game breaker since 2 mans for 2 1/1's is about right.
Quote from: Willthomjr on July 25, 2012, 09:00:27 AM
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
How is this any different than gather the townsfolk? Obviously just red. I don't see it as a game breaker since 2 mans for 2 1/1's is about right.
Like I said, maybe not a sleeper now, but it seems like the goblin tribe is gunna make a resurgence. And it was my ticket to winning in my draft. Turn 2 2 1/1's was enough stall for me to create Mismatches. Almost every game I played, it was t1 {goblin arsonist}, t2 {krenkos command}, t3 {fervor}, t4 {talrands innvocation}. Scoop. Happened twice. Not saying sleeper. Just a good card to draft if you are going red.
Quote from: Tetsomori on July 25, 2012, 04:47:48 AM
Quote from: Eryama on July 25, 2012, 02:17:59 AM
I think that {Slumbering Dragon} is a sleeper. :P
No in all seriousness someone is going to
find a combo that makes him ready turn
three and it's going to be really popular.
Just my opinion.
Already possible. Turn one dragon turn two travel prep. Turn 3 the miracle that puts 4 1/1 counters :)
Needs to be more consistent
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 25, 2012, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Willthomjr on July 25, 2012, 09:00:27 AM
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
How is this any different than gather the townsfolk? Obviously just red. I don't see it as a game breaker since 2 mans for 2 1/1's is about right.
Like I said, maybe not a sleeper now, but it seems like the goblin tribe is gunna make a resurgence. And it was my ticket to winning in my draft. Turn 2 2 1/1's was enough stall for me to create Mismatches. Almost every game I played, it was t1 {goblin arsonist}, t2 {krenkos command}, t3 {fervor}, t4 {talrands innvocation}. Scoop. Happened twice. Not saying sleeper. Just a good card to draft if you are going red.
Your opponent: ill play ratchet bomb. Insert trollface here
Quote from: GoJuDragon on July 25, 2012, 12:33:27 PM
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 25, 2012, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Willthomjr on July 25, 2012, 09:00:27 AM
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
How is this any different than gather the townsfolk? Obviously just red. I don't see it as a game breaker since 2 mans for 2 1/1's is about right.
Like I said, maybe not a sleeper now, but it seems like the goblin tribe is gunna make a resurgence. And it was my ticket to winning in my draft. Turn 2 2 1/1's was enough stall for me to create Mismatches. Almost every game I played, it was t1 {goblin arsonist}, t2 {krenkos command}, t3 {fervor}, t4 {talrands innvocation}. Scoop. Happened twice. Not saying sleeper. Just a good card to draft if you are going red.
Your opponent: ill play ratchet bomb. Insert trollface here
Drafts are most likely m13 and:or innistrad oriented atm. Atleast in my city.
But on a side note constructed and draft are very different when it comes to card efficiency. Its a good draft card but a not a sleeper in my opinion. Great basis for a goblin tribe deck though.
Quote from: Dudecore on July 25, 2012, 05:47:34 AM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 05:29:32 AM
I'm not so hot on {Jace's Phantasm}. You have to run a bunch of dead cards in order to get it off consistently, and most players would just like to exile cards with their {Snapcaster Mage}s.
Running the math on "mill" cards, it doesn't work out currently in the meta. A mill card, going against a 60 card deck, essentially makes the opponents life 60. The best card Mill has is {Mind Sculpt} which only equates to an {Incinerate} in terms of cost vs. life lost.
{Jace's Phantasm} is a good card vs. Delver, because it's an early 1/1 flyer you can trade to kill Delver. It's also good in an Delver mirror, because most of the time Delver gets sided vs. blue.
Mtg is, and always will be about racing. {Geist of Saint Traft} will always outrace mostly anything (which is why {Knight of Infamy} and {Knight of Glory} are so above the curve)
The problem is that... Ugh! Mill doesn't affect the board state!
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
The problem is that... Ugh! Mill doesn't affect the board state!
It does with {Jace's Phantasm}. :P ;D You're also taking away future resources/answers from before they get to your opponent's hand.
Quote from: BlackJester on July 25, 2012, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
The problem is that... Ugh! Mill doesn't affect the board state!
It does with {Jace's Phantasm}. :P ;D You're also taking away future resources/answers from before they get to your opponent's hand.
Haha it was really fun to play against one of my friends because he had exactly one {Jace's erasure} in his deck and whenever he had it and was drawing everyone (we played multiplayer) was holding their breath hoping not to be choosen and if so hoping that it wouldnt be an essential component of their deck ;D
Sleepers are usually determined by how they do in contructed over a long period of time, and in response to other sets coming up; not by their performance in drafts. Hence the name "sleepers" ;)
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 25, 2012, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Willthomjr on July 25, 2012, 09:00:27 AM
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on July 24, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
{Krenko's command} definately a sleeper. I just placed second in a draft bc of it. Didn't even have the boss. Token spamming in ravinica is gunna be fun.
How is this any different than gather the townsfolk? Obviously just red. I don't see it as a game breaker since 2 mans for 2 1/1's is about right.
Like I said, maybe not a sleeper now, but it seems like the goblin tribe is gunna make a resurgence. And it was my ticket to winning in my draft. Turn 2 2 1/1's was enough stall for me to create Mismatches. Almost every game I played, it was t1 {goblin arsonist}, t2 {krenkos command}, t3 {fervor}, t4 {talrands innvocation}. Scoop. Happened twice. Not saying sleeper. Just a good card to draft if you are going red.
Fervor is an excellent card in limited, invocation is a good card. What you're talking about is synergy..krenko command is a red gather the toensfolk. Average common at best.
{Krenko's Command} is to {Gather the Townsfolk} is to {Midnight Haunting} is to {Lingering Souls}.
Krenko's and Gather are both helpful cards but not good enough to rise in price. Haunting is good but still does not do enough to make it good. Souls does in 1 card what 2 cards would do, and gives you the choice of when to do it (flashback as opposed to a 5cmc card that gives you 4 tokens). That's why it is banned in limited and a 2 dollar common.
Uncommon :) but yes you're right coffee
Oops hehe
{dragon fodder} is avg $.23
{krenko's command} is avg $.16
Did fodder ever go higher?
Quote from: BlackJester on July 25, 2012, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
The problem is that... Ugh! Mill doesn't affect the board state!
It does with {Jace's Phantasm}. :P ;D You're also taking away future resources/answers from before they get to your opponent's hand.
You have as much chance of letting them draw their bomb faster than to mill it away.
Quote from: Eryama on July 25, 2012, 02:17:59 AM
I think that {Slumbering Dragon} is a sleeper. :P
No in all seriousness someone is going to find a combo that makes him ready turn three and it's going to be really popular. Just my opinion.
Red Green
Turn 1 dragon
Turn 2 ponder, index
Turn 3 blessing of nature
RUG? Very unlikely
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on July 25, 2012, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on July 25, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
The problem is that... Ugh! Mill doesn't affect the board state!
It does with {Jace's Phantasm}. :P ;D You're also taking away future resources/answers from before they get to your opponent's hand.
You have as much chance of letting them draw their bomb faster than to mill it away.
I'd like to see some actual stats on that. You may be right, but I have a feeling that reducing the total number of available cards for them to draw from reduces the number of potential threats.
Obviously not good vs Snappy or Vengeance.
Quote from: KangaRod on July 26, 2012, 08:02:57 AM
They can ban cards in limited?
Lol @ milling away threats...
You have just as much chance to mill away lands..... And their chance of drawing a threat after milling doesn't change (not counting the names of the cards.
I never understood why people think milling my deck hurts my draws...
Yes, they can ban cards in limited. For example, lingering souls is banned in limited
I think milling hurts more than it helps. You are either removing game winning cards, or taking the land away from them to play their bombs. Mill like can't compete with a fast deck like an RDW, but for like mid-range aggro it would work well.
Quote from: GoJuDragon on July 26, 2012, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: KangaRod on July 26, 2012, 08:02:57 AM
They can ban cards in limited?
Lol @ milling away threats...
You have just as much chance to mill away lands..... And their chance of drawing a threat after milling doesn't change (not counting the names of the cards.
I never understood why people think milling my deck hurts my draws...
Yes, they can ban cards in limited. For example, lingering souls is banned in limited
cards are not baned in limited. lingering souls is banned in block constructed.
Banning a card in Limited would be awful. Imagine opening a booster and seeing an awesome card that will have to "round the table" in a draft because no one can legally play it. :'(
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 26, 2012, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: GoJuDragon on July 26, 2012, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: KangaRod on July 26, 2012, 08:02:57 AM
They can ban cards in limited?
Lol @ milling away threats...
You have just as much chance to mill away lands..... And their chance of drawing a threat after milling doesn't change (not counting the names of the cards.
I never understood why people think milling my deck hurts my draws...
Yes, they can ban cards in limited. For example, lingering souls is banned in limited
cards are not baned in limited. lingering souls is banned in block constructed.
Oh. I appologize. My mistake