Ok I know that I can use the cemetery reaper's ability anytime I have priority, even when it's not my turn. I also know that since cards with undying go to the graveyard, if I had the 3 mana free and tapped it, I could exile the undying card and get my 2/2 zombie token.
Now my question is...how to I prove that to someone who cant't follow logic it seems? He's saying I cannot do that. Can someone point me to solid rules or articles on wizards and such that would explain irrefutably?
Also, I am correct in what I said I can do, aren't I?
you are correct you can do that. give everybody a moment to find the relevant rulings.
Extra info: He says that I cannot tap him to use his ability when it isn't my turn, even if I have mana.
He thinks "priority" means "turn."
Just so you understand what I'm dealing with here.
Thank you again
You are correct.
Undying is a triggered ability, and so it must go on the stack. Players have to pass priority before anything resolves. You have the chance, when priority is passed to you, to activate abilities ({Cemetery Reaper}). If the card is no longer in the gy, the undying trigger loses track of it and doesn't resolve.
There are a number of rules for each of these steps, and I'll probably dig them up over lunch. But that right there is the gist of it.
If it helps your case, tell your friend that an official DCI Sanctioned Rules Adviser (that's me! ;)) said so.
Quote from: BlackJester on June 27, 2012, 12:53:43 PM
You are correct.
Undying is a triggered ability, and so it must go on the stack. Players have to pass priority before anything resolves. You have the chance, when priority is passed to you, to activate abilities ({Cemetery Reaper}). If the card is no longer in the gy, the undying trigger loses track of it and doesn't resolve.
There are a number of rules for each of these steps, and I'll probably dig them up over lunch. But that right there is the gist of it.
If it helps your case, tell your friend that an official DCI Sanctioned Rules Adviser (that's me! ;)) said so.
Thanks! Just frustrating to show someone the logic of something and hear "no, that doesn't make sense to me." It is due to the fact that my deck is built around CR and his is an angel deck where he was expecting to yank his guys out of the graveyard the whole game. So, of course, it "makes no sense" to him that I can do this, lol.
Much appreciated for everyone's time in replying and the numbers and such will help.
Going to copy, paste, and save the info! :)
It's like trying to explain special relativity to a cat some days. I know your frustration. Maybe suggest he takes a look through the Basic Rule Book. It's got pretty pictures in it. ;)
And that's pretty much all he'd notice. Hmm maybe if Barney the purpose dinosaur gave him a tutorial, he'd get it, lol.
More seriously: these are the rules I wrote down to show him the next time we play-
792.91a, 400.7, 112.3b, and all of rule 116. Am I missing any?
Quote from: RevanJJ on June 27, 2012, 01:38:27 PM
And that's pretty much all he'd notice. Hmm maybe if Barney the purpose dinosaur gave him a tutorial, he'd get it, lol.
More seriously: these are the rules I wrote down to show him the next time we play-
792.91a, 400.7, 112.3b, and all of rule 116. Am I missing any?
Everything looks good, except I think you meant 702.91a. 116.3 in particular should help too. Good luck!
Quote from: BlackJester on June 27, 2012, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: RevanJJ on June 27, 2012, 01:38:27 PM
And that's pretty much all he'd notice. Hmm maybe if Barney the purpose dinosaur gave him a tutorial, he'd get it, lol.
More seriously: these are the rules I wrote down to show him the next time we play-
792.91a, 400.7, 112.3b, and all of rule 116. Am I missing any?
Everything looks good, except I think you meant 702.91a. 116.3 in particular should help too. Good luck!
Oops yeah meant 702.91a. Thanks!
602.2a should help a little as well.
Thought you all deserve to know how it went down.
Told him on Wednesday that I've found out about activated abilities and explained. Then followed w the numbers of each rule, then emailed the explanations of printed up. One was even from a judge on Wizards.com where he stated the number then explained.
Well first, he said because I printed the papers, even though I texted and emailed him on Wednesday that I was planning to "ambush him" with "new" rules on the upcoming Sunday, 4 and a half days later after sending him all the info. Lol.
Then he said he didn't care what a judge said or people on forums(as I'd also quoted info from here) said, that only rules mattered. Even though the emails sent had the rules listed and simply explanations of the rules( as if that was needed but gave anyway) below each rule. So basically he spent 5 hours freaking out and not accepting these rules and sucking with amusing conspiracy theories.
Think I'm justified in not playing this guy anymore. Appears to be a 2 yr old trapped in a 40 yr old's body, lol.
Will be playing at card shop locally. PM me if anyone is in SC and wants to play.
Figured after all your efforts to explain, you deserved to know how that went down.
Thanks again for all the time and effort helping me explain this even if it was to no avail.
Someone who won't accept the rules as written is probably not going to be fun to play with.
Sorry to hear. (Dang, 40y old and still carrying on like that? :o)
Quote from: BlackJester on June 29, 2012, 01:37:59 PM
Someone who won't accept the rules as written is probably not going to be fun to play with.
Sorry to hear. (Dang, 40y old and still carrying on like that? :o)
Lol that's what I'm saying. The conspiracy part is the craziest. I was saving info for a Sunday...yet sent it on Wednesday lmao!
Quote from: RevanJJ on June 29, 2012, 01:39:42 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 29, 2012, 01:37:59 PM
Someone who won't accept the rules as written is probably not going to be fun to play with.
Sorry to hear. (Dang, 40y old and still carrying on like that? :o)
Lol that's what I'm saying. The conspiracy part is the craziest. I was saving info for a Sunday...yet sent it on Wednesday lmao!
Yeah, 'cause we're ALL plotting against some dude we don't know. CRAY-ZEE!
Insane in the membrane!
I only play casual with friends but guys like that make me not want to go to card shops and play or FNM. I play to show creativity and have fun. Not to badger on and act like the penguin in batman "wak wak wak wak wakkkk"
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on June 29, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
Insane in the membrane!
I only play casual with friends but guys like that make me not want to go to card shops and play or FNM. I play to show creativity and have fun. Not to badger on and act like the penguin in batman "wak wak wak wak wakkkk"
Exactly! Was a friend but yeah who wants to hang with the Penguin!? Lol.
I do it because have a lot of physical issues and gets mind off pain, also fun to strategize and to almost tell a story with your deck. But it's hard to play any game if the opponent freaks out when you just point out a rule that wasn't being used.
Oh well. I'll try card shop, see of there are any cool ppl there willing to play casual. The one near me does 6pm till 10pm games two nights a week. Will check it out as it would suck to not use these cards I spent $ on and decks I worked hard on.