Okay so my opponent is playing his dumb delver deck of dumbness. He has out an annoying {Geist of saint traft}. I have cleverly placed a {pacifism} into my graveyard, and then I cast my {sun Titan} targeting my {pacifism} to re-enter the battlefield. I can then put the pacifism onto the Geist since auras only target when being cast, correct?
No sir, the pacifism must go on to a legal target. It targets as it goes on the stack. His Geist has hexproof so he is an illegal target so {Pacifism} lands on {Sun Titan}, if your {Sun Titan} and his {Geist of Saint Traft} are the only creatures in play. I suggest another 3 or less costing permanent.
Quote from: Leviathan on June 22, 2012, 02:23:13 AM
No sir, the pacifism must go on to a legal target. It targets as it goes on the stack. His Geist has hexproof so he is an illegal target so {Pacifism} lands on {Sun Titan}, if your {Sun Titan} and his {Geist of Saint Traft} are the only creatures in play. I suggest another 3 or less costing permanent.
Wrong! Nobbert is right. Look at the rulings on {Dead Weight}. For some reason since its coming from the gy you can enchant the hexproof creatures without the enchantment targeting anything except for {Oblivion Ring} and other o-ring esque enchantments.
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 22, 2012, 02:44:36 AM
Quote from: Leviathan on June 22, 2012, 02:23:13 AM
No sir, the pacifism must go on to a legal target. It targets as it goes on the stack. His Geist has hexproof so he is an illegal target so {Pacifism} lands on {Sun Titan}, if your {Sun Titan} and his {Geist of Saint Traft} are the only creatures in play. I suggest another 3 or less costing permanent.
Wrong! Nobbert is right. Look at the rulings on {Dead Weight}. For some reason since its coming from the gy you can enchant the hexproof creatures without the enchantment targeting anything except for {Oblivion Ring} and other o-ring esque enchantments.
Befuddlement shrouds me. How does this work. Is it because the word Target is not present? Does this work on Shroud as well?
When Auras are bought into play (not being cast), they attach to a creature. Attaching does not target a creature so it can bypass shroud and hexproof.
In a situation where a creature has protection from a colour, and the aura is of that colour: after being attached, will the aura just fall off?
Quote from: D3g3n on June 22, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
When Auras are bought into play (not being cast), they attach to a creature. Attaching does not target a creature so it can bypass shroud and hexproof.
In a situation where a creature has protection from a colour, and the aura is of that colour: after being attached, will the aura just fall off?
Incorrect. When an enchantment is cast it must target but for some reason when it comes into play from the gy it doesn't have a target. Against pro color it doesn't work..I don't think...
Quote from: Leviathan on June 22, 2012, 02:50:07 AM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 22, 2012, 02:44:36 AM
Quote from: Leviathan on June 22, 2012, 02:23:13 AM
No sir, the pacifism must go on to a legal target. It targets as it goes on the stack. His Geist has hexproof so he is an illegal target so {Pacifism} lands on {Sun Titan}, if your {Sun Titan} and his {Geist of Saint Traft} are the only creatures in play. I suggest another 3 or less costing permanent.
Wrong! Nobbert is right. Look at the rulings on {Dead Weight}. For some reason since its coming from the gy you can enchant the hexproof creatures without the enchantment targeting anything except for {Oblivion Ring} and other o-ring esque enchantments.
Befuddlement shrouds me. How does this work. Is it because the word Target is not present? Does this work on Shroud as well?
Yep! That and when you cast a spell you target but with sun Titan you put it in play and because it's put not cast the target rule doesn't apply. Same reason a {Blade splicer} that enters the battlefield from the gy from sun titans ability can't be mana leaked
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 22, 2012, 03:06:23 AM
Quote from: D3g3n on June 22, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
When Auras are bought into play (not being cast), they attach to a creature. Attaching does not target a creature so it can bypass shroud and hexproof.
In a situation where a creature has protection from a colour, and the aura is of that colour: after being attached, will the aura just fall off?
Incorrect. When an enchantment is cast it must target but for some reason when it comes into play from the gy it doesn't have a target. Against pro color it doesn't work..I don't think...
Sun Titan doesn't cast them from your graveyard, rather they return to the battlefield.
Quote from: D3g3n on June 22, 2012, 03:08:49 AM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 22, 2012, 03:06:23 AM
Quote from: D3g3n on June 22, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
When Auras are bought into play (not being cast), they attach to a creature. Attaching does not target a creature so it can bypass shroud and hexproof.
In a situation where a creature has protection from a colour, and the aura is of that colour: after being attached, will the aura just fall off?
Incorrect. When an enchantment is cast it must target but for some reason when it comes into play from the gy it doesn't have a target. Against pro color it doesn't work..I don't think...
Sun Titan doesn't cast them from your graveyard, rather they return to the battlefield.
I said that in the one after...
Lol so what's the answer?
And I have another one for y'all: when a spell says enchant creature without the word target in it can you put it on the opponents hex proof creature?
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on June 22, 2012, 04:49:11 AM
Lol so what's the answer?
And I have another one for y'all: when a spell says enchant creature without the word target in it can you put it on the opponents hex proof creature?
Only if it's put in by an ability like {Sun Titan}'s. and you asked the same thing the original poster did...
Another example would be {nomad mythmaker}. Same rules apply for her bc she is "attaching" not casting.
i'll speed this up. If you CAST an aura it targets. If you have it enter the battlefield by other means e.g. {sun titan} and {wargate} and the ability doesn't say you cast the card then the aura does not target and you may attach it to any legal permanent the aura can enchant. if the permanent has protection from some characteristic the aura has the aura it will fall off. This bypasses shroud, hexproof, and other "this card cannot be targeted by blah blah blah" effects. so nobbert is correct
Quote from: D3g3n on June 22, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
When Auras are bought into play (not being cast), they attach to a creature. Attaching does not target a creature so it can bypass shroud and hexproof.
In a situation where a creature has protection from a colour, and the aura is of that colour: after being attached, will the aura just fall off?
The first part is right, the second part is not. If a creature has Protection from the color of the aura, it can't (in game terms) legally be enchanted by that aura, so you are not allowed to chose that creature. It doesn't enter the BF the first place. The aura stays where it was.
We good now?
So if u say blink an aura u control with Venser it comes back at end of it turn u can attach it to a hex proof or shrouded target ?
Can I get the rule number for this
And to get this strait I can target a hexproof creature with spells I return from the graveyard
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
Quote from: Millionlittlee on June 25, 2012, 09:36:22 AM
And to get this strait I can target a hexproof creature with spells I return from the graveyard
No, you can't target. Non-cast auras don't target.
Quote from: BlackJester on June 25, 2012, 11:32:12 AM
Quote from: Millionlittlee on June 25, 2012, 09:36:22 AM
And to get this strait I can target a hexproof creature with spells I return from the graveyard
No, you can't target. Non-cast auras don't target.
You know what I mean I can pick a hexproof creature of I got it from the graveyard
Quote from: Millionlittlee on June 25, 2012, 11:34:16 AM
You know what I mean I can pick a hexproof creature of I got it from the graveyard
Quote from: BlackJester on June 25, 2012, 11:31:00 AM
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
Quote from: CbStrad on June 25, 2012, 08:21:23 AM
Quote from: jhirt57 on June 25, 2012, 07:52:07 AM
So if u say blink an aura u control with Venser it comes back at end of it turn u can attach it to a hex proof or shrouded target ?
Yup. Troll away, mister {Pacifism} and {Mind Control} :3
That's what we've been saying, yup.
So one last question if I blinked O ring with venser could I target a hex proof creature using I know it's not an aura but is an enchantment and would it create a new stack
Quote from: jhirt57 on June 25, 2012, 02:41:57 PM
So one last question if I blinked O ring with venser could I target a hex proof creature using I know it's not an aura but is an enchantment and would it create a new stack
No. The {Oblivion Ring} is worded that it enters the BF first, and then targets something.
no
{dead weight} is another good one for saint traft