Gday, last night I had a friendly game at home that we called a draw but I'm unsure on.
I got an early {Primordial Hydra} out, it got {Pacifism}'d a few turns in. Fast forward a fair few turns and I was down on life. I drew a {Fling}, went to throw the hydra for multi-thousand damage, and my opponent tapped out to {Divine Deflection} enough to kill me.
Does the damage from both these spells happen simultaneously as we thought? Or is there a stack nuance that would cause one of us to win instead?
Cheers.
I'm pretty sure the damage has to resolve first before it can be prevented. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Quackmaster5 on June 13, 2012, 10:44:07 AM
I'm pretty sure the damage has to resolve first before it can be prevented. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm with you. It would still kill OP as well since it would be on the stack but he would die "2nd", or at least that is my thoughts.
I can't remember if this is an actual rule or not since my groups have used it as a kitchen table standard for years but we play it in this fashion. If the Active Player is "killed" in their turn they do not actually die until the end of that turn, allowing them to recover if possible, such as the use of cards like {Drain Life} or something similar. Then again we play 4-6 people at a time normally so it makes it a bit more fun.
The prevention/"redirection" effects happen simultaneously with the fling damage. You'd both die.
both. it isn't prevented then shot back it does it all at the same time the rest of your damage hits him.
Can I get a specific ruling on this? I'm getting told this is wrong.
Both {fling} and {divine deflection} are instants so I would take it that the fling would be cast, and in response (aka before it resolves) the next x damage that WOULD be dealt is prevented and directed elsewhere. That tells me mr. Fling dies and double d wins. The damage is prevented. The card says so. Where's the confusion?
Read the previous comments, you can see why I'd like a specific ruling.
It's says the next X damage. And it's the last on the stack therefore resolves first dealing that X damage back at the fling controller. That's how we used to play with {captains maneuver} and nobody ever argued it. I don't see where the confusion lies. Am I missing something?
The damage hasn't been dealt when Divine Deflection resolves... It prevents the NEXT x damage, which doesn't occur until Fling resolves - nothing to do with when Divine Deflection resolves. Assuming Primordial Hydra has been around for a while, the likely result when Fling resolves is a boatful of damage from Fling, with x of it prevented / re-directed at the same time. I.e you both die at the same time... That's how I read the cards anyway!
Example. 2 players. Both at 1 life. Both have empty hands. Player 1 has a {consecrated sphinx} in play but its player 2's turn. Player 2 draws a {lightning bolt}, sphinx triggers, player 1 draws a land and a {lightning bolt}. Player 2 casts it and player 1 responds in kind. What happens? I feel like I'm missing an integral piece of MtG mechanics here and I would love to know the ruling!
I don't see that as the same situation at all - they (the Lightning Bolts) do instant damage, so go into the stack, and whoever is on the stack last gets the first damage done and wins. Divine Deflection does NOT do damage when it resolves, it only applies to the next damage that is done, I.e. the damage only happens when Flinging the Hydra... A load of that comes throu anyway, as you can't pay enough x to prevent all of it, and as the prevention / redirect happens at the same time as it occurs, they both die...
If that's the case, someone owes me a stack of ante...lol
And btw, {divine deflection} does do damage and its an instant. It says so on the card. RTC.
From the AVR FAQ:
If Divine Deflection prevents damage, excess damage (if any) dealt by that source is dealt at the same time. Immediately afterward, as part of that same prevention effect, Divine Deflection deals its damage. This happens before state-based actions are checked, and before the spell or ability that caused damage to be dealt resumes its resolution.
So the state based result of the excess damage (the flingee having no life from having the Hydra thrown at him for more than prevented x) is NOT checked before the prevented damage is cast to the flinger. The Fling / Prevent / Damage all effectively then resolves at the same time, killing both of them...
Gavel? :-)
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on October 13, 2012, 02:23:00 AM
And btw, {divine deflection} does do damage and its an instant. It says so on the card. RTC.
It only does damage when it prevents damage .... Could be way later in the turn, or in the current stack resolution... It does NOT do damage WHEN IT RESOLVES... RTC yourself... :-p
Sounds logical. I'm still curious about my lightning bolt question, though...lol
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on October 13, 2012, 02:27:21 AM
Sounds logical. I'm still curious about my lightning bolt question, though...lol
Player 1 wins unless player 2 casts his before the sphinx trigger resolves. Stack goes top down so the most recent spell or trigger would resolve first.
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on October 13, 2012, 02:23:00 AM
And btw, {divine deflection} does do damage and its an instant. It says so on the card. RTC.
Divine deflection does damage as a replacement effect not an instant KTR
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on October 13, 2012, 02:11:19 AM
Example. 2 players. Both at 1 life. Both have empty hands. Player 1 has a {consecrated sphinx} in play but its player 2's turn. Player 2 draws a {lightning bolt}, sphinx triggers, player 1 draws a land and a {lightning bolt}. Player 2 casts it and player 1 responds in kind. What happens? I feel like I'm missing an integral piece of MtG mechanics here and I would love to know the ruling!
In this case the last bolt on the stack resolve first killing player 2 first
Neat. Thanks guys. Damn I love this game.
Yeah, they both die because the damage happens at once, everybody dies
Quote from: swallowtail on October 13, 2012, 02:24:23 AM
From the AVR FAQ:
If Divine Deflection prevents damage, excess damage (if any) dealt by that source is dealt at the same time. Immediately afterward, as part of that same prevention effect, Divine Deflection deals its damage. This happens before state-based actions are checked, and before the spell or ability that caused damage to be dealt resumes its resolution.
So the state based result of the excess damage (the flingee having no life from having the Hydra thrown at him for more than prevented x) is NOT checked before the prevented damage is cast to the flinger. The Fling / Prevent / Damage all effectively then resolves at the same time, killing both of them...
Gavel? :-)
Here you are for ruling