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Magic (The Gathering) => Discussion => Topic started by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:29:56 PM

Title: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:29:56 PM
I remember reading the novels and when they referred to planeswalkers, it wasn't some person who was important in the story. It was a unworldly being that has the "spark".

Now it seems they are overusing the term planeswalker by having actual cards.

I just don't understand.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I would love a good conversation. It's been bugging me!
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 11, 2012, 03:43:04 PM
My understanding was that Planewalkers were every day people who, through some dramatic event in their lives, had an epiphany about the Multiverse and gained "the spark".  Every one who sleeves cards up is a Planeswalker facing other Planeswalkers.  It took them over a decade to create cards around PWs and I think they did a great job with the idea.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 11, 2012, 03:43:04 PM
My understanding was that Planewalkers were every day people who, through some dramatic event in their lives, had an epiphany about the Multiverse and gained "the spark".  Every one who sleeves cards up is a Planeswalker facing other Planeswalkers.  It took them over a decade to create cards around PWs and I think they did a great job with the idea.

I agree. I think PWs add to the game. What they do is awesome. I dont think they should go crazy with them though, which I don't think they are. A few new ones here and there is nice.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I'm talking about the characters.
The way they talk about them being common people isn't right to the story line though.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I'm talking about the characters.
The way they talk about them being common people isn't right to the story line though.

I really need to read the novels. I've only been playing for a year so I missed out on them I suppose.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I'm talking about the characters.
The way they talk about them being common people isn't right to the story line though.

I really need to read the novels. I've only been playing for a year so I missed out on them I suppose.

So you really dont know what it's like without planeswalkers. 

No offense but you cant be credable in the argument for or against planeswalkers if you've never played when they weren't around.

My point is that planeswalkers were mentioned, but if they didn't become a planeswalker, they never really played any role except as a diety.

Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I'm talking about the characters.
The way they talk about them being common people isn't right to the story line though.

I really need to read the novels. I've only been playing for a year so I missed out on them I suppose.

So you really dont know what it's like without planeswalkers. 

No offense but you cant be credable in the argument for or against planeswalkers if you've never played when they weren't around.

My point is that planeswalkers were mentioned, but if they didn't become a planeswalker, they never really played any role except as a diety.

I wasn't arguing though.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:06:42 PM
Quote from: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Jenningst on June 11, 2012, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I'm talking about the characters.
The way they talk about them being common people isn't right to the story line though.

I really need to read the novels. I've only been playing for a year so I missed out on them I suppose.

So you really dont know what it's like without planeswalkers. 

No offense but you cant be credable in the argument for or against planeswalkers if you've never played when they weren't around.

My point is that planeswalkers were mentioned, but if they didn't become a planeswalker, they never really played any role except as a diety.

I wasn't arguing though.

Well thats what I made the thread for.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 11, 2012, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I'm talking about the characters.
The way they talk about them being common people isn't right to the story line though.
What do you mean "...isn't right to the story line"?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:00:07 PM

My point is that planeswalkers were mentioned, but if they didn't become a planeswalker, they never really played any role except as a diety.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 11, 2012, 04:16:10 PM
So, every PW ever mentioned should be a main story character?

Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:29:56 PM
I remember reading the novels and when they referred to planeswalkers, it wasn't some person who was important in the story. It was a unworldly being that has the "spark".

I'm still not sure what you're driving at...   :-\
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 04:21:38 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 11, 2012, 04:16:10 PM
So, every PW ever mentioned should be a main story character?

Quote from: Kuberr on June 11, 2012, 03:29:56 PM
I remember reading the novels and when they referred to planeswalkers, it wasn't some person who was important in the story. It was a unworldly being that has the "spark".

I'm still not sure what you're driving at...   :-\

I think what I'm trying to say is that they abused the status of planeswalker making it worth less. Idk.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 11, 2012, 04:26:39 PM
Okay, you think that by having too many PW that they are less special now?  That they are "saturating the market" with PWs?  For me, I'd like to see LOTS of different PWs, each with their own style and skill-set.

If you consider that each one of us is a PW, then really there should be many running around.  I think what they are working towards is to have a PW to represent many of the different deck archetypes.  There ought to be at least one PW for each of the two-color combos.

Edit: How did they "abuse" PWs?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Killin88 on June 11, 2012, 09:35:15 PM
I haven't played to long but I don't like the concept of plainswalkers either I agree with kuber
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Maximo on June 12, 2012, 01:43:17 AM
Planeswalkers are ridiculously fun to build around and play with and honestly I wish there were more of them, in all colors, from all planes, like {Tamiyo, The Moon Sage}. I just hope in the future Wizards does a better job of explaining their stories instead of pulling a "Meanwhile, hundreds of miles away at an observatory"
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm not sure how they would do it, but I would love to see old school PW as cards: Urza, Mishra, Teferri.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm not sure how they would do it, but I would love to see old school PW as cards: Urza, Mishra, Teferri.

Kuberr, Ixidor, Karona.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm not sure how they would do it, but I would love to see old school PW as cards: Urza, Mishra, Teferri.

Kuberr, Ixidor, Karona.
{Kuberr} was a PW?  Really? ???
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm not sure how they would do it, but I would love to see old school PW as cards: Urza, Mishra, Teferri.

Kuberr, Ixidor, Karona.
{Kuberr} was a PW?  Really? ???

Haven't you read the oddesy/onslaught cycle books?


Wait. Mishra was a planeswalker? I thought he was just master artificer. And urza was the planeswalker.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 11:27:19 AM
I'm not well versed in Arcana. I thought both brothers were 'walkers.
I've only ever read the old Mirrodin cycle.

I had a deal with a card shop owner that I could trade in the books from fatpacks for more boosters, so I did.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 11:27:19 AM
I'm not well versed in Arcana. I thought both brothers were 'walkers.
I've only ever read the old Mirrodin cycle.

I had a deal with a card shop owner that I could trade in the books from fatpacks for more boosters, so I did.


Wow. I probably would have done the same thing. I've never read Mirridon cycle books.

I suggest everyone read the artifact cycle books. (urza's cycle) its an amazing read.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Dmreiss on June 12, 2012, 05:48:06 PM
(First Post)...  I am not really a fan of the planes walker cards. I was playing back during revised up until about Tempest.  My son started
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
I'm glad someone who's played prior to planeswalkers has an opinion.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Dmreiss on June 12, 2012, 05:49:59 PM
Playing and we dragged out the boxes. It seems like whomever gets one out has a huge advantage because you are then playing against to people.  It would be nice if there were some cards that countered planes walker abilities or something to balance them out.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: JohnSalun007 on June 12, 2012, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on June 12, 2012, 05:49:59 PM
Playing and we dragged out the boxes. It seems like whomever gets one out has a huge advantage because you are then playing against to people.  It would be nice if there were some cards that countered planes walker abilities or something to balance them out.

That's why they can be countered
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 05:52:23 PM
Quote from: JohnSalun007 on June 12, 2012, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on June 12, 2012, 05:49:59 PM
Playing and we dragged out the boxes. It seems like whomever gets one out has a huge advantage because you are then playing against to people.  It would be nice if there were some cards that countered planes walker abilities or something to balance them out.

That's why they can be countered

By what? Mana leak isn't being replaced.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: JohnSalun007 on June 12, 2012, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 05:52:23 PM
Quote from: JohnSalun007 on June 12, 2012, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on June 12, 2012, 05:49:59 PM
Playing and we dragged out the boxes. It seems like whomever gets one out has a huge advantage because you are then playing against to people.  It would be nice if there were some cards that countered planes walker abilities or something to balance them out.

That's why they can be countered

By what? Mana leak isn't being replaced.

Any counterspell. They count as spells, so they can be countered.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
I'm glad someone who's played prior to planeswalkers has an opinion.
(Apparently my opinion doesn't count.)
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: JohnSalun007 on June 12, 2012, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
I'm glad someone who's played prior to planeswalkers has an opinion.
(Apparently my opinion doesn't count.)

Your opinion is so superior it doesn't need to count. Your opinions are laws an your facts are legends.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
I'm glad someone who's played prior to planeswalkers has an opinion.
(Apparently my opinion doesn't count.)

I must have missed your post bj. Lmao
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Dmreiss on June 13, 2012, 12:19:35 AM
Quote from: JohnSalun007 on June 12, 2012, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on June 12, 2012, 05:49:59 PM
Playing and we dragged out the boxes. It seems like whomever gets one out has a huge advantage because you are then playing against to people.  It would be nice if there were some cards that countered planes walker abilities or something to balance them out.

That's why they can be countered

Sure, they can be countered, but once they are out there is no stopping their abilities.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Wally on June 13, 2012, 01:05:28 AM
Just attack them, they are so vulnerable sometimes it's hard to keep them on the table.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:18:02 AM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm not sure how they would do it, but I would love to see old school PW as cards: Urza, Mishra, Teferri.

Kuberr, Ixidor, Karona.

i'm pretty sure kuberr was just a very powerful being. like a legendary dragon
powerful. Ixidor was definitely not a planeswalker he just had the unique ability to dreamcraft like an emo boss (would have liked him as a planeswalker though over jace}. and karona was only a planeswalker out of the fact that jeska was.

you're saying that planeswalkera have become less valuable as they introduce new ones but that's the truth of it. after jeska mended the final rift planeswalkers went from being gods to just superhumans. hence why people like nicol bolas try crack pot schemes like draining the mana of an entire plane to return to their prior awesomeness. the entire time spiral trilogy/block was to set up for weaker playable planeswalkers.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 01:23:04 AM
Quote from: CbStrad on June 13, 2012, 01:06:42 AM

Objection!

{Azorius Guildmage}

Sustained!

{Stiffle}
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:26:57 AM
there's also pithing needle for a permanent solution.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 01:30:34 AM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:18:02 AM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 12, 2012, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 12, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm not sure how they would do it, but I would love to see old school PW as cards: Urza, Mishra, Teferri.

Kuberr, Ixidor, Karona.

i'm pretty sure kuberr was just a very powerful being. like a legendary dragon
powerful. Ixidor was definitely not a planeswalker he just had the unique ability to dreamcraft like an emo boss (would have liked him as a planeswalker though over jace}. and karona was only a planeswalker out of the fact that jeska was.

you're saying that planeswalkera have become less valuable as they introduce new ones but that's the truth of it. after jeska mended the final rift planeswalkers went from being gods to just superhumans. hence why people like nicol bolas try crack pot schemes like draining the mana of an entire plane to return to their prior awesomeness. the entire time spiral trilogy/block was to set up for weaker playable planeswalkers.
If this site is to be trusted:

http://mtg.wikia.com/wiki/Planeswalkers#List_of_Known_Planeswalkers

Note the absence of the aforementioned Kuberr, Ixidor, Karona.

Just Sayin'.   8)
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:22:07 AM
Jeska was never a planeswalker. Phage might have been one. I think Karona wasnt real, but in the storyline she's insane.
Ixidor could create life. He could create anything he thought about. I will always consider him a planeswalker. Though he may have never have the spark, but I believe him to be insanely powerful. To take out the cabal and the krosan all alone. Or with akroma.

SPOILER

(And actually. Ixidor became a planeswalker at the end of the onslaught book.)
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:46:58 AM
Kamahl the krosan or the original garruk the planeswalker. Who would win in a fight?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 11:46:19 AM
Bump this question ^^
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 11:52:52 AM
Kahmahl was a beast
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 11:54:59 AM
Quote from: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 11:52:52 AM
Kahmahl was a beast

Oh yes. He could make entire armies with his thoughts.

Maybe the book was op, with Ixidor and all, but what does Garruk really have?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 12:31:44 PM
jeska was a planeswalker... after karona died she became karn's pupil for a time and then gathered people like venser and radha to help with the mendig. that my friend is fact.

edit: also ixidor was killed by karona. ixidor was on the same power level as kuberr and averru. they all died in one stroke from karona.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 12:31:44 PM
jeska was a planeswalker... after karona died she became karn's pupil for a time and then gathered people like venser and radha to help with the mendig. that my friend is fact.

That's a whole different cycle. Jeska died and was turned into phage. Which in turn was used to create Karona. I think there are two different Jeska's. I'm talking about Kamahl's sister.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 01:13:26 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:46:58 AM
Kamahl the krosan or the original garruk the planeswalker. Who would win in a fight?
{Kamahl, Fist of Krosa} overrunning {Garruk Wildspeaker} with massive animated forests.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 01:13:26 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:46:58 AM
Kamahl the krosan or the original garruk the planeswalker. Who would win in a fight?
{Kamahl, Fist of Krosa} overrunning {Garruk Wildspeaker} with massive animated forests.

I defiantly agree.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 01:13:26 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:46:58 AM
Kamahl the krosan or the original garruk the planeswalker. Who would win in a fight?
{Kamahl, Fist of Krosa} overrunning {Garruk Wildspeaker} with massive animated forests.

I defiantly agree.

So defiant, eh?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:37:20 PM
Idk, primal hunters lands turn into 6/6 wurms. Thats kinda scary no matter the turn.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:37:20 PM
Idk, primal hunters lands turn into 6/6 wurms. Thats kinda scary no matter the turn.

Kamahl can make armies (literally) of tree folk, elves, centaurs, ect. Garruk is an angry kitty cat.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 12:31:44 PM
jeska was a planeswalker... after karona died she became karn's pupil for a time and then gathered people like venser and radha to help with the mendig. that my friend is fact.

That's a whole different cycle. Jeska died and was turned into phage. Which in turn was used to create Karona. I think there are two different Jeska's. I'm talking about Kamahl's sister.

same jeska. jeska becomes phage become karona becomes jeska with awakened planeswalker spark.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 12:31:44 PM
jeska was a planeswalker... after karona died she became karn's pupil for a time and then gathered people like venser and radha to help with the mendig. that my friend is fact.

That's a whole different cycle. Jeska died and was turned into phage. Which in turn was used to create Karona. I think there are two different Jeska's. I'm talking about Kamahl's sister.

same jeska. jeska becomes phage become karona becomes jeska with awakened planeswalker spark.

And what book does that happen?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:49:09 PM
at the end of scourge. karona is killed and the remnants becomes jeska who becomes karn's aprentice for a time. skip a few blocks later and jeska is saving the multiverse in time spiral blok.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:49:09 PM
at the end of scourge. karona is killed and the remnants becomes jeska who becomes karn's aprentice for a time. skip a few blocks later and jeska is saving the multiverse in time spiral blok.

Where's akroma and the old chick then? Why is Jeska the only one alive?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:49:09 PM
at the end of scourge. karona is killed and the remnants becomes jeska who becomes karn's aprentice for a time. skip a few blocks later and jeska is saving the multiverse in time spiral blok.

Where's akroma and the old chick then? Why is Jeska the only one alive?

akroma and zagorka died for good. jeska already had a planeswalker spark caused the entire karona fusion in the first place. akroma and zagorka were just powerful mortals. jeska was an actual planeswalker hence karona being a planeswalker by inference.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:56:36 PM
It's been a while since I read scourge. And I'm just finishing up onslaught so I haven't got that far yet.

What is your opinion on Ixidor? What do you think happens?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:37:20 PM
Idk, primal hunters lands turn into 6/6 wurms. Thats kinda scary no matter the turn.

Kamahl can make armies (literally) of tree folk, elves, centaurs, ect. Garruk is an angry kitty cat.

True. I was speaking merely of card abilities.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 01:58:15 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:56:36 PM
It's been a while since I read scourge. And I'm just finishing up onslaught so I haven't got that far yet.

What is your opinion on Ixidor? What do you think happens?

ixidor is a boss. he just spends too much time in a death wurm though. and then when he finally gets out he gets killed by karona.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on June 13, 2012, 01:37:20 PM
Idk, primal hunters lands turn into 6/6 wurms. Thats kinda scary no matter the turn.

Kamahl can make armies (literally) of tree folk, elves, centaurs, ect. Garruk is an angry kitty cat.

True. I was speaking merely of card abilities.

Well ya.

This is all hypothetical based on their storylines.

It would be tough to determine garruks ability because he's not in any books.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Eryama on June 13, 2012, 02:03:10 PM
From the comics Garruks abilities include seed sprouting, bonding with creatures, communicating with them and summoning them at will. But other than that I have nothing.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:04:19 PM
I didn't even know they made comics. That must be new.

Too bad. I much preferred the novels.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:06:20 PM
its really hard to gauge power levels because all planeswalkers with cards are post mending. pre mending walkers were literal gods. post mending planeswalkers are "only" exceptionally powerful. so i think people like ixidor an kamahl are on the same level as post mending planeswalkers minus the ability to planeswalk.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:22:07 AM
SPOILER

(And actually. Ixidor became a planeswalker at the end of the onslaught book.)

Having a difficult time confirming this with intertube searching.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:22:07 AM
SPOILER

(And actually. Ixidor became a planeswalker at the end of the onslaught book.)

Having a difficult time confirming this with intertube searching.

Read the book. :D
I literally was reading it as we conversated last night.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
he doesn't ixidor is just the reincarnation of one of the numena. who killed dromar an hence got the dreamcrafting ability.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:20:13 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
he doesn't ixidor is just the reincarnation of one of the numena. who killed dromar an hence got the dreamcrafting ability.


I don't believe that at all. That's not what it says...
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Eryama on June 13, 2012, 02:20:30 PM
Yeah they are free on the wizards website. The only novels I can find is agents of artifice, the purifying fire, and the first lorwyn book. I would love to read the rest I just can't find them.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: Eryama on June 13, 2012, 02:20:30 PM
Yeah they are free on the wizards website. The only novels I can find is agents of artifice, the purifying fire, and the first lorwyn book. I would love to read the rest I just can't find them.

Bet place is online or used book stores.

Online they're literally like 2$.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:20:13 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
he doesn't ixidor is just the reincarnation of one of the numena. who killed dromar an hence got the dreamcrafting ability.


I don't believe that at all. That's not what it says...

its not about what you buy its about what it is and what happened.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:20:13 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
he doesn't ixidor is just the reincarnation of one of the numena. who killed dromar an hence got the dreamcrafting ability.


I don't believe that at all. That's not what it says...

its not about what you buy its about what it is and what happened.

Lol. To you. It's about what people interperate. That's what books are. Silly guy. :D
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
word of god [aka wotc] concurs with me.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
word of god [aka wotc] concurs with me.

Nope.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 02:33:55 PM
I agree, to a certain level. You can only interpitate so far without treading on what the author intended a book to say.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
word of god [aka wotc] concurs with me.

Nope.

yep hence for the same reason i can truthfully say glissa and slobad WERE once planeswalkers as well
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
word of god [aka wotc] concurs with me.

Nope.

I.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magic:_The_Gathering_characters:_I#Ixidor
Can't.
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Ixidor
Find.
http://mtg.wikia.com/wiki/Ixidor
Any credible support for your claim.

Can you pull up a sentence or two from the book that says "Ixidor found his spark and was a Planeswalker." ?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:41:10 PM
Because interwebz are always right. :) jk

Wikipedia is extremely uncredable btw.

But hey, I know how I feel and I know what I think happens. I can believe what I want! Haha. That's why books are great. Because I can interpret what I want.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:45:13 PM
i'll take that as a no.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:46:52 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 02:45:13 PM
i'll take that as a no.

I really don't think it literally needs to say "Ixidor found a spark and ZOMG he's a planeswalker now" when in reality its implied.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 02:47:46 PM
I'll "interpret" that as a no. ;)
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:50:36 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:41:10 PM
Because interwebz are always right. :) jk

Wikipedia is extremely uncredable btw.

Interwebz can be wrong.  Wiki is not perfect.  But at least people attempt to populate it with the best information on hand and is editable by many.  However, not one since place, not one website regarding PWs that I could find supports your belief. 

Quote
But hey, I know how I feel and I know what I think happens. I can believe what I want! Haha. That's why books are great. Because I can interpret what I want.

I don't think you really understand how books work...  :-\
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:50:38 PM
Why are you people trying to prove me wrong? Are you that close minded? Can you not think outside the box for a second? Why must you follow the specific list of planeswalkers? Lol that's just ridiculous. The point is that I think he got strong enough and he transcended.

Books work how I imagine them to. When it's a fiction book, I imagine what I imagine. That's all that matters. Just because you interpreted something different doesn't make me wrong.

You can't always be right.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
An I think that chicken soup can fly.  That doesn't mean it can.

Just because you WANT Ixidor to be a PW doesn't make it arcana.  The community agrees that there are certain characters that obtained a spark.  He is not among them.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
I think Frodo became a whale hunter at the end of The Return of the King because he went off in a boat.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Guypocolypse on June 13, 2012, 02:54:17 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
I think Frodo became a whale hunter at the end of The Return of the King because he went off in a boat.
^this
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
An I think that chicken soup can fly.  That doesn't mean it can.

Just because you WANT Ixidor to be a PW doesn't make it arcana.  The community agrees that there are certain characters that obtained a spark.  He is not among them.


I'm sorry I thought this wAs all about oppinion.

If I wanted a lesson from you I would go back to school. And defiantly not for magic. Lmao.

This is all hypothetical. Just like I mentioned before.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:56:22 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
I think Frodo became a whale hunter at the end of The Return of the King because he went off in a boat.
The books end there, so maybe it's possible. 

No, wait, Tolken wrote in the book that he was going with the elves.  But hey, maybe you want to believe differently.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
So mocking me is fun?
Lol how cute.

Besides. Lord of the rings was retarded.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 03:02:34 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:56:22 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
I think Frodo became a whale hunter at the end of The Return of the King because he went off in a boat.
The books end there, so maybe it's possible. 

No, wait, Tolken wrote in the book that he was going with the elves.  But hey, maybe you want to believe differently.

I believe that he was going to go to the elves, but he felt the call of the whales some 70 invisible pages after the book ends. Do not be so intolerant and close minded please. This is my interpretation.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:03:03 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
An I think that chicken soup can fly.  That doesn't mean it can.

Just because you WANT Ixidor to be a PW doesn't make it arcana.  The community agrees that there are certain characters that obtained a spark.  He is not among them.


I'm sorry I thought this wAs all about oppinion.

If I wanted a lesson from you I would go back to school. And defiantly not for magic. Lmao.

This is all hypothetical. Just like I mentioned before.
So, it's your opinion that Ixidor is in fact a PW, not that he should be, or that you wish he was one.

Facts =/= opinions.

Fact: There are no references to Ixidor ever becoming a PW. <= Objective and verifiable.

Opinion: I think they should have made Ixidor a PW.  <=subjective

I don't see any references in your arguments that this was a hypothetical exercise.  You were stating something to be true, which it is not.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
Keep mocking me. It's quite funny.

Very mature. :D
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:06:02 PM
And when I said "the community" I meant the entire magic community at large, not the iMtG community.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Coffee Vampire on June 13, 2012, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
So mocking me is fun?
Lol how cute.

Besides. Lord of the rings was retarded.

Mocking you? No. Well maybe.

But there is a point we are trying to make that is more important: if everything is completely open for interpretation and opinion, I might as well read the napkin I used to wipe my face at breakfast. I will learn just as much about Magic: the Gathering because I will have my own interpretation either way. In fact, I might learn more by reading my napkin because there aren't any pesky opinionated words already there; it is all up to my flawless interpretation now!
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
Keep mocking me. It's quite funny.

Very mature. :D
Mocking?  I was trying to have a discussion, but clearly it's upsetting you, based on your responses, so I'll leave this alone.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:09:39 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:03:03 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
An I think that chicken soup can fly.  That doesn't mean it can.

Just because you WANT Ixidor to be a PW doesn't make it arcana.  The community agrees that there are certain characters that obtained a spark.  He is not among them.


I'm sorry I thought this wAs all about oppinion.

If I wanted a lesson from you I would go back to school. And defiantly not for magic. Lmao.

This is all hypothetical. Just like I mentioned before.
So, it's your opinion that Ixidor is in fact a PW, not that he should be, or that you wish he was one.

Facts =/= opinions.

Fact: There are no references to Ixidor ever becoming a PW. <= Objective and verifiable.

Opinion: I think they should have made Ixidor a PW.  <=subjective

I don't see any references in your arguments that this was a hypothetical exercise.  You were stating something to be true, which it is not.

So because I misspoke and didn't use the right words, you're automatically right? Lol. I guess I don't understand. So I thought it was implied, you're right though. Of course. Youre always right. Just always out to prove everyone wrong. Poor guy.

It's fun to pick on me for no reason. On the Internet. My Opa is big on the Internet.

No need to pick on me. I didn't really do anything to deserve it. I'm sure you know how it feels to be picked on. Why would you want to pick on someone else?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
Keep mocking me. It's quite funny.

Very mature. :D
Mocking?  I was trying to have a discussion, but clearly it's upsetting you, based on your responses, so I'll leave this alone.

Instead of wasting your life on the Internet. Read the book. :) you may learn more than you think.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:16:17 PM
Well, the chicken soup deal did have a mocking tone.  For that I apologize. 
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
Keep mocking me. It's quite funny.

Very mature. :D
Mocking?  I was trying to have a discussion, but clearly it's upsetting you, based on your responses, so I'll leave this alone.

Instead of wasting your life on the Internet. Read the book. :) you may learn more than you think.

I'm actually killing time during my lunch break.  If you consider that wasting, well I guess it's wasted.

I doubt I'll find a different literal translation for the events in the book.  I usually just go with what's on the page.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:20:34 PM
Have you read it?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 03:22:09 PM
I don't think I'm picking on you specifically, you just happen to be the only one holding your particular side of the argument.  If anyone else here agreed with you that Ixidor was in fact a PW, I would include them in the discussion as well.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:30:11 PM
Well anyways. I want to keep this going.

Which planeswalker would you like to read a story about?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 03:44:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:20:34 PM
Have you read it?

this question doesn't help your argument at all since you already have upheld "the power of interpretation"
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: BlackJester on June 13, 2012, 04:05:45 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 03:44:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:20:34 PM
Have you read it?

this question doesn't help your argument at all since you already have upheld "the power of interpretation"
It's already been established that I haven't.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 04:09:28 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 03:30:11 PM
Well anyways. I want to keep this going.

Which planeswalker would you like to read a story about?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 04:14:26 PM
mmm venser before the mirrodin shenanigans.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 04:20:07 PM
Was Mirridon any good?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
which block?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 04:39:54 PM
The original. Idk what the books are called.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Rasser on June 13, 2012, 06:08:48 PM
I liked it it's one of my favorites. When I started reading the books I started at darksteel then fifth dawn. Didn't read moons of mirrodin untill a year later.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Rasser on June 13, 2012, 06:11:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 04:09:28 PM
Which planeswalker would you like to read a story about?
Lord Windgrace before he died
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 06:14:15 PM
Quote from: Rasser on June 13, 2012, 06:11:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 04:09:28 PM
Which planeswalker would you like to read a story about?
Lord Windgrace before he died

You know, one thing I've noticed is that on the list of planeswalkers, there are a lot of them that say (deceased) next to them. How do planeswalkers die?
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: scarsabrex on June 13, 2012, 06:21:50 PM
 pre-mending typically offed by another planeswalker or loses spark (either forcefully or by choice) and then succumb to deathly conditions. post mending can die any concievable way since they're just mortals now.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Rasser on June 13, 2012, 06:50:44 PM
If you kill the mind of a Planeswalker they die. A few died in Invasion block books
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Langku on June 13, 2012, 06:51:20 PM
Thank you for a story-centric discussion thread Kuberr. The story in mtg is, for me, what gives the game staying power in my list of hobbies. I believe that the increase of planeswalkers has had a positive impact on both the game and the story. I think the narrative, like the game, can be considered vintage, legacy, modern, etc. The tales written 10+ years ago were no doubt rich in their own right but seem like the cards of that time: somewhat imbalanced in their story arch.  As the game has evolved to meet new, and i would say higher expectations, so too has the narrative.
Which brings me to my second point: I must disagree with your earlier post claiming newer players like Jenningst, having not played before planeswalkers, have no right to a voice in this discussion. Fresh and new ideas are what make mtg a good story and game. Those same fresh perspectives don't necessarily come from veterans but from new players. I think it's important for both parties to have a voice.
Again, kuberr thanks for a thought provoking thread.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 07:00:38 PM
I love the story too, and for me it's a big reason I play still.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Maximo on June 13, 2012, 10:55:49 PM
This thread exploded. Dang. Didn't know kuberr could get so sensitive and snappy.
Title: Re: Planeswalkers?
Post by: Kuberr on June 13, 2012, 10:59:43 PM
Your snide comments are not needed nor desired. Thank you.

:D

So I was skimming through the time spiral books here at my local used book store and I don't see Jeska mentioned anywhere. I see vensor and ajani or however you spell it. I also see a name I haven't seen in a long time, but I don't know where it came from. XD