I am hoping we can get a topic going on sideboarding against our weaknesses in standard. To start off i am playing u/b/r and delver decks are the only hard match up, does anyone have a good idea of what crushes delver (u/r)?
To be clear, ideas and themes will be more helpful than specific card names.
A good idea! I'm wondering if this would be better housed in the Standard section. Thoughts everyone?
Youre probably right.
so long it is stickied
Done.
Awesome. Thank you. So back to the topic. And one know delver well enough to know what it loses to? So far ive found damage prevention and low damage wrath work well but im sure there is more
{Whipflare} is good against delver. So is {Gut Shot} and {Vapor Snag}(If you time it right it will take at least 3 of their turns to actually get a chance for delvie to flip.
Thats very true, my deck doesnt allow much room for me to rely on those cards though, i feel like i would need at least a 3 of any of those. Is there any stagnant options? So far platinum emperion and frost titan have gotten me past delver decks (barely survived invisable stalker), but it was too close for comfort
I realize that platinum emperion probably confused some of you so i posted my list that won the avacyn mat. Its under Game Day Champ
Blue: {Thought Scour} is good against Delver, because it messes up their {Ponder} setups. Bounce: {Vapor Snag}, {Unsummon} then Counter.
Red: The tons of 2+ dmg red spells. {Pillar of flames}, {slagstorm}, {thunderbolt}, {incinerate} ect.
Green: {Eaten by Spiders}? {Fog}?I don't know.
Black: {Doom Blade}, {Go for the Throat}, ect.
White: control: {Pacify}, {Oblivion Ring}, {Fiend Hunter}.
Everyone: {Ratchet Bomb}
Quote from: Dudecore on June 01, 2012, 07:07:18 PM
Blue: {Thought Scour} is good against Delver, because it messes up their {Ponder} setups. Bounce: {Vapor Snag}, {Unsummon} then Counter.
Red: The tons of 2+ dmg red spells. {Pillar of flames}, {slagstorm}, {thunderbolt}, {incinerate} ect.
Green: {Eaten by Spiders}? {Fog}?I don't know.
Black: {Doom Blade}, {Go for the Throat}, ect.
White: control: {Pacify}, {Oblivion Ring}, {Fiend Hunter}.
Everyone: {Ratchet Bomb}
Those are sone great points, i feel like ratchet bomb isnt worth the slots when its a one time thing, i cant use glissa or sun titan so i dont feel its worth it since tokens weakend and humans have many differnt mana costs now. Is this the common idea or am i alone on this?
No {rachet bomb} is epic.
It creams WW (either one ;) ) and it can wipe opponents boards easily.
Against delver I side in {eaten by spiders} and {rolling temblor} The temblor kills the {invisible stalker} and the spiders kill the delver and the sword (war and peace or body and mind) they put on it after the stalker dies.
Quote from: Thorn on June 01, 2012, 09:44:44 PM
No {rachet bomb} is epic.
It creams WW (either one ;) ) and it can wipe opponents boards easily.
Against delver I side in {eaten by spiders} and {rolling temblor} The temblor kills the {invisible stalker} and the spiders kill the delver and the sword (war and peace or body and mind) they put on it after the stalker dies.
Few Delver decks are running {Invisible Stalker} anymore, and {Sword of Feast and Famine} makes delver immune to {Eaten by Spiders}. Green doesn't have fliers, and thus the harder matchups with Delver.
{Ratchet Bomb} is a better Delver killer IMHO, 2 mana, sac for 0, call it a day.
I play delver and what really kills delver is when u get me top decking. Try the black shrine from new phyrexia. Make me pitch my hand and then killing ways or slagstorm. Done day
Quote from: Agrajagzz9 on June 02, 2012, 11:04:04 AM
I play delver and what really kills delver is when u get me top decking. Try the black shrine from new phyrexia. Make me pitch my hand and then killing ways or slagstorm. Done day
thank you. I made good use of that shrine at the salt lake GP but it hasnt seen play since, i had forgottten about it.
Ok next deck now, what are you guys struggling against
I play r/g WW and enjoy the hell out of it. I have a problem with fliers and this red/green Kessig wolf run deck that's running the green Titan and slag storm. I'm not sure what to do with it. He'll beat me each time 2/1 or so. I'd like to get 1st or second, but he's in the way every time. Any ideas?
What does your deck look like? I play wolf run green splashed red for slagstorm maybe I can help but I don't know what you already have pm me
Hey guys what should I run in my Delver deck SB to counter all your Delver hate?????
JK
Good idea to create a SB topic to be stickied 👍
Wolf run tends to lose to tempo so maybe sideboard the worlfir avenger and hellrider if youre not already running them and maybe even hero of oxid if he is running creature ramp instead of sphere of suns. Phyrexian metamorph also does funny things in that match up cause they do the ramping for you.
Delver. In my expierence invisable stalker with mana for the mana leak or negate is a huge problem. Slap anything on a stalker and he'll pick up where your delver left off.
Ok new one. What does RDw side against timely if they dont have or want bonfire?
slagstorm and more burn i'd presume.
I found the answer!!
Second guess, it aliviates the stressful parts of the match up with delver and has a low inpact on the deck build.
What's good vs. delver?
Bonfire, second guess, and steel hellkite have proven effective for me and my deck, but if youre asking about what deck is good against delver, the answer is red green aggro.
Quote from: Desolatus on June 04, 2012, 11:44:29 AM
I play r/g WW and enjoy the hell out of it. I have a problem with fliers and this red/green Kessig wolf run deck that's running the green Titan and slag storm. I'm not sure what to do with it. He'll beat me each time 2/1 or so. I'd like to get 1st or second, but he's in the way every time. Any ideas?
I play a kessig ravager build and am destroyed time and again by zealous conscripts and/or act of aggression.
Sooo I have {Burning Vengence} and I need to know what to SB against mono-green and agaisnt BV hate like that new m13 artifact.
Mental mistep and witchbane orb are pretty much it.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on June 23, 2012, 05:11:20 PM
Bonfire, second guess, and steel hellkite have proven effective for me and my deck, but if youre asking about what deck is good against delver, the answer is red green aggro.
What's good vs. RG aggro?
I stopped having issues with red green aggro when i added four blasphemous act between the main and side. They crap dudes si fast that turn three wrath is easy and it sets them back when they lose their mana dorks.
If thats not an option id say black sun, terminus, day, timely reinforcements, pillar of flame+snapcaster, and devastation tide if you need the time to get a good position againt them.
New question. The orzhov control deck i posted seems to run consitantly against anything, what do you think its week against and how do i build an orzhov sideboard for those weaknesses.
M13 is out now. What do you think we should change in our sideboards? Are their new cards and achitypes we should all be siding against or do you believe the meta is fairly stable and not many changes are needed despite the new cards?
Token control, post rotation. What is everyone's feeling about {Ratchet Bomb}? Was it too powerful? What is not powerful enough?
I feel its too meta based. I have one deck with a good pilot at my LGS that has heavy tokens therefore i dont make room for ratchet since {bonfire of the damned} is enough. The real hit comes from the fact that tokens are mosty fightin along side 1 and 2 drops so its hard to decide what to ratchet.
I'm running a exalted deck white with a splash of blue to stop my opponents from crushing field wipe damage. I don't want any cards from the block falling off in oct. so sideboard ATM is 2 obliv rings and 2 fiend hunters the other two of each are main deck. I'm running some champ of parish silver blade palidans etc. basically an Argo deck. I also have three nevermore side boarded. Any suggestions?
What do you need to side against? {celestial purge} and {revoke existence} are worth siding regardless of them rotating out 8 fnms from now.
I always keep Eldrazi in my sideboard for that one time when I might need {Spawnsire of Ulamog} lol
If you're black, and can get to 5 mana, {Curse of Death's Hold} is a good sideboard card. As is {Sever the Bloodline}
I cat remember the name of the card (it would help if someone else did =p) but the effect was like tap on one turn to add a charge or it's other effect was tap and destroy all perminants with concerted mana cost of amount of charges on the artifact... My delivers and suped up phantasims all got PWNd by that card
Quote from: BcBudds on August 10, 2012, 03:21:09 PM
I cat remember the name of the card (it would help if someone else did =p) but the effect was like tap on one turn to add a charge or it's other effect was tap and destroy all perminants with concerted mana cost of amount of charges on the artifact... My delivers and suped up phantasims all got PWNd by that card
{Ratchet Bomb}? The card is awesome against token's and decks that rely heavily on flipped creatures.
I run a mono R goblin deck that seems to run perfectly untill I run into a curse of deaths hold something of the like. I don't even have a sb made at all. I was thinking of makeing my sb all into a splash of green for things thing naturalize rootbound crag and plummet any suggestions?
Personally, i'd try to speed up more. If theyre running a 5 cost curse that gives you 4-6 turns to attack and the rest of the game to burn. {thunderous wrath} plus {reverberate} would be a great next turn response to curse. Also you can {reverberate} counter spells to counter their counter, copy your spell to push atleast one copy through, hit them with their own {bonfire of the damned} or {entreat the angels}. For slightly less aggro decks i believe {reverberate} is you best sideboard option.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on August 17, 2012, 01:12:28 PM
Personally, i'd try to speed up more. If theyre running a 5 cost curse that gives you 4-6 turns to attack and the rest of the game to burn. {thunderous wrath} plus {reverberate} would be a great next turn response to curse. Also you can {reverberate} counter spells to counter their counter, copy your spell to push atleast one copy through, hit them with their own {bonfire of the damned} or {entreat the angels}. For slightly less aggro decks i believe {reverberate} is you best sideboard option.
Ummmm check my deck list out koth's goblin mob I don't think I could speed it up anymore! Lol
I'm running a {B}/{W} with a splash of {G} exalted deck, and I've never had to worry about building a sideboard, so what are some tips and things I should be adding? Please and thank you.
I dont hace time for specifics at the moment, but the basis of a sideboard is identify your weak points such as flying, direct damage, wrath, infect, ect. Then find cards that will help tweak your deck against those things.
May I suggest tormod's crypt
The uses will be many while it also replaces nihil spellbomb
I have only plade against delver once
So im going to start a list of bane cards, cards that certain decks just hate.
Zombies-{blade splicer} the size of the body and the first strike make it difficult for zombies to attack or defend against.
Humans-{blasphemous act} This card is devastating in the absence of a {sword of war and peace} or in between equips and the greatest part is that the cost is relative to the seriousness of the situation in a positive way.
Any more?
Heartless: {mind rot} the early loss of cards to play severely hurts a deck that relies on pooring threat after threat in a well planned order onto te field.
U/G infect: {vapor snag} a well timed snag in response to the hexproof will send multiple cards down the drain and leave the infect deck floundering like a goblin deck after wrath.
To be clear i am avoiding the obvious counter cards and opting for simple and viable additions to your decks instead of counter measures strictly against certain decks.
Delver-{pristine talisman} delver functions on the concept of poking for small amounts of damage turn after turn that quickly add up and leave you in range of a pike, sword, or angel for the kill. If you can keep your life constantly pushing back against these pokes, delver is left on the defensive long enough to establish your own board presence.
{R}/{G} aggro variants- {safe passage} pod, kessig, naya, etc. all run on utility creatures pulling a lot of weight for their cost. A well timed passage can put you on the winning end of combat and place this combat oriented deck in a tough position after losing the war of attrition to a bunch of pro-damage creatures. Oh and it stops {bonfire of the damned} too.
Turbo fog: {revoke existence} this deck can cycle cards over and over and doesnt think twice about something heading to the graveyard, exile however can get pretty painful especially if it's one of the mill or draw engines such as {rites of flourishing}.
New Pox: {lingering souls} this deck took some spotlight for about two weeks before everyone who played it was dragged out back and beaten for playing it. If you don't know this deck it is {W}/{B} and uses {lingering souls}, {liliana of the veil}, {small pox}, {gravecrawler}, {geralf's messenger}, {duress}, {ravenous rats}, and some black spot removal. This deck focuses on the iconic black theme, rip your own arm off and beat them with it (more commonly refered to as victory and power at any cost). Now since you do end up losing a lot of life and have no durable flying presence some opposing unanswered souls will spell doom...slow, slow doom.
{R}/{W} humans: {tragic slip} Yesterday i faced a surprisingly powerfull version of this deck. It functioned off of normal mono white human staples but added {kessig malcontents}, {cloudshit}, and of course {bonfire of the damned}. {lightning mauler} was in there as well. To the point, this deck was very damaging and unanswered dealt massive amounts of damage very quickly. As I later found out {sublime angel} made for the finishing blow much the same way {falkenrath aristocrat} does in zombies. I found that a well placed {tragic slip} or other pin prick kept him off his feet long enough for me to establish a survivable board presence. I sliped a malcontent out from under a deadly cloudshift, a champion off his delver flip status T2 swing, and a silverblade into submission despite it's double strike.
Primal rage: {hex parasite} This deck has many names, but it is one most of us are familiar with and is rapidly gaining traction with moderate skilled players. The idea is put counters on {primordial hydra} and then so stupid things like make it fight {stuffy doll} in the {R}/{G} version or {temporal mastery} for the best proliferation ever seen since {doubling season}, or like my opponent did T3 swing a 2/2 hydra paired with {silverblade paladin}. All of this is pretty great if it gets going, fortunately a few main deck {hex parasite}s nipped this chaos in the bud and swung for some extra damage. They also work well against {sphere of the suns}.
Anyone posted {Human Frailty} as a human hoser? {Appetite for Brains} is another good one too, for black to remove combo decks and {Huntermaster of the fells} . Both sideboard in my mono black control deck.
Quote from: Dudecore on September 08, 2012, 04:39:20 PM
Anyone posted {Human Frailty} as a human hoser? {Appetite for Brains} is another good one too, for black to remove combo decks and {Huntermaster of the fells} . Both sideboard in my mono black control deck.
{human frailty} is one card i am completely for, im just finding it doesnt fit well with my decks sine i have the bonfires that do almost the same thing and the combos i like are red anyways so no need to find other solutions. My teammate's {U}/{B} delver and a few others we've worked on in the last 3 months have made great use of that card, it answers nearly every deck except zombies and titan ramp at least a little.
{Appetite for Brains} is good to get rid of planeswalkers, {Restoration angel}, {huntmaster of the fells}, titans It's only 1 black and i get to see their hand, so it helps to strategize. It's better in limited.
Quote from: Dudecore on September 08, 2012, 04:51:46 PM
{Appetite for Brains} is good to get rid of planeswalkers, {Restoration angel}, {huntmaster of the fells}. It's only 1 black and i get to see their hand, so it helps to strategize.
I definately needs to stay sideboard though, there are a lot of decks out there that dont have more than 3-5 4CMC or higher.
I love ur ideas kaleo, what would u side in against naya pod other than artifact destruction?
Quote from: GoJuDragon on September 12, 2012, 12:39:43 AM
I love ur ideas kaleo, what would u side in against naya pod other than artifact destruction?
Depends on what you are playing, some decks need to change stratagies, some speed, and some (not all) need add and remove cards.
*SPOILER ALERT*
Detention Sphere 1BW
Enchantment
When Detention Sphere enters the battlefield, exile target (either nonland permanent or creature i forgot) and all others permanents/creatures with the same name as it.
Supreme Verdict 1WWB
Sorcery (i think)
Destroy all creatures.
Supreme Verdict can't be countered by spells of abilities.
Azorious has some serious token hate, so im stacking up on {Naturalize} for my sideboard. Anyone else have any sideboarding suggestions for Selsenya against Azorious?
That new soldier that exiles instants and sorceries for sure. Also {parallel lives} cause detain can only hit so many tokens before getting overwhelmed.
This section will need a revamp once the meta starts to shake out.
I will be spearheading that operation with continued mini articles on bane cards.
I'm running a mill deck, so I've sideboarded 4 Tormod's Crypts. Also 2 Talrand's Invocations, but I doubt those'll be used much.
Try {sleep} and {nihil spellbomb} (if your running black)
No black... But I actually just did away with the sideboard, I don't think there'll be too much Golgari and if there is I guess I just won't go to FNM for a while.
Got big plans for a standard sideboard. Just gotta wait for some tournaments and metas to pop up to really compile a list of sideboard cards and their applications.
This isnt tested yet, but these are the sideboard options i am thinking about.
{nevermore} this answers {thragtusk} and {geralf's messenger}, two of the most annoying cards for me right now.
{magma quake} instant speed hit most creatures and planeswalkers (which are crazy good right now and sure to be popping up more and more, i believe {dreadbore} wasnt printed to lower numbers of walkers played, it was printed to combat the growing numbers)
With all the nasty graveyard hate flying around what's the best way to Sb? Playing {B}{G}. I know after the fact a {rest in peice} comes out its easliy destroyed, but just having it hit the board once can really slow or knock your deck out of the competition
if you're relyin on you GY.
Is {Nevermore} the best bet?
Other options?
{nevermore} really is the most certain option, but {duress} has been used on me a bit to stop the T2 {rest in peace}.
Depending on the deck type, the safest option is just to side in heavy aggro and burn them out with or without the graveyard.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on October 22, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
{nevermore} really is the most certain option, but {duress} has been used on me a bit to stop the T2 {rest in peace}.
Depending on the deck type, the safest option is just to side in heavy aggro and burn them out with or without the graveyard.
Right, that's a good call on {duress} and I was thinking it should be more of an aggro switch. I'm running a {B}{G} reanimate thinking Sb can be {far seek} and other ramp.....well what ramp we have left.
Thank for the help.
Quote from: Almosteric on October 22, 2012, 06:29:46 PM
With all the nasty graveyard hate flying around what's the best way to Sb? Playing {B}{G}. I know after the fact a {rest in peice} comes out its easliy destroyed, but just having it hit the board once can really slow or knock your deck out of the competition
if you're relyin on you GY.
Is {Nevermore} the best bet?
Other options?
I'd go with {golgari charm} it destroys enchantments and messes with the field, really helpful in that situation.