Ok so my opponent and I both are at 2 life, he has a tapped {Geralf's Messenger} and I just put down {Massacre Wurm}, who loses the 2 life first?
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on May 28, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
Ok so my opponent and I both are at 2 life, he has a tapped {Geralf's Messenger} and I just put down {Massacre Wurm}, who loses the 2 life first?
He would. The Wurm's ability triggers when the Messenger hits the graveyard. The Messenger's ability triggers once it returns to the battlefield. So it has to die before it can come back.
I believe that is correct. Unless there's something overly complex with the Stack involved.
The wurms trigger goes on the stack as does undying but the active player chooses the stack order if im not mistaken (active player is whomevers turn it is)
Whichever abilty activates first, is the "winner". Then the opposind ability is triggered. I believe thats correct.
So if you chose to put the Undying trigger on the Stack first, you win. Massacre Wurm first, you lose
The non-active player lives.
The active player will put their "kill the opponent" trigger on the stack first, followed by the next player. The non-active player's trigger will resolve before the active player's trigger.
In your example, its probably your turn if you cast the wurm, so the messenger dies. This action will cause two triggers, undying and wurm's lose two life. Since the triggers are owned by different players, the will get put on in order of APNAP (active player, non-active player). You put yours on, they put theirs.
Undying resolves, bringing back messenger and putting its trigger on the stack while the wurm's is still waiting to resolve.
Same situation but messenger is untapped, and opponent (at 2 life) swings for lethal I block with messenger who wins?
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 28, 2012, 02:18:03 PM
Same situation but messenger is untapped, and opponent (at 2 life) swings for lethal I block with messenger who wins?
Very similar, they are the active player, you would win for the same reasons as before. Two triggers from different players, APNAP. You trigger goes on last, resolves first.
So the messenger would win me the game?
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 28, 2012, 02:23:24 PM
So the messenger would win me the game?
Unless they had other attackers dealing lethal, of the attacking creature had lethal trample. In that case, all combat damage is dealt at the same time. If you survive combat damage, your messenger would kill your opponent before wurm's ability kills you.
Quote from: BlackJester on May 28, 2012, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 28, 2012, 02:23:24 PM
So the messenger would win me the game?
Unless they had other attackers dealing lethal, of the attacking creature had lethal trample. In that case, all combat damage is dealt at the same time. If you survive combat damage, your messenger would kill your opponent before wurm's ability kills you.
Interesting. APNAP, I'll have to remember that
You can't choose the stack order of an item you don't control.
Wait so does my wurms ability win me the game or not? (it's my turn)
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on May 28, 2012, 03:22:11 PM
Wait so does my wurms ability win me the game or not? (it's my turn)
They appear to be saying "NO"
You lose your stuff goes on the stack first since it's your turn meaning his stuff goes on the stack on top of yours and happens first.
That sucks oh well
Would you be able to use {sundial of the infinate} here? Like crack the sundial and put it on the stack between the wurm and the messenger? I don't think so. JA
Quote from: Jake, Fart Sculptor on May 28, 2012, 04:07:12 PM
Would you be able to use {sundial of the infinate} here? Like crack the sundial and put it on the stack between the wurm and the messenger? I don't think so. JA
Sure, if it's your turn. You could end the turn before the messenger comes back, but then both triggers go bye bye. You're left with a wurm, so it's probably not a bad move.
What happens if both players would die to the same trigger in this situation? Say, replace the messenger with a {Soulcage fiend}. Would it result it a coveted mtg draw? Or is there a way to resolve 1 winner if soulcage pops and both players are 3 or lower?
Just curious.
draw.
I thought one would have to resolve first
There's only thing to resolve
I miss read
Who's "read", should I miss them also?
Well according to the logic the match would end in a draw
When soulcage fiend dies it does damage to all players when Geralfs messenger dies it only does damage to you
Yup I'm starting to think witch bane orb is very underrated
It's a great sideboard, I wouldn't main deck it though.
So say you're playing a burn deck would you run 4 witch bane orbs from your side board or what's the appropriate amount?
probably three
If they are playing lots of DD for the win, the orb is their kryptonite. You want it on the table ASAP, I'd run four.
If you can plant one, you can sit back and cackle and overwhelm them with your monsters.
Quote from: BlackJester on May 30, 2012, 12:24:41 AM
If they are playing lots of DD for the win, the orb is their kryptonite. You want it on the table ASAP, I'd run four.
If you can plant one, you can sit back and cackle and overwhelm them with your monsters.
Yup that sounds about right thanks Jester